FWD Drag Racers GET INSIDE

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, here's the deal... working on trying to get us a FWD/Sport Compact class at Monster Mopar (and maybe other events) this year

In the past we had a "heads up" shootout at the Mopar Nats, but it was poorly attended, partially due to their lack of advertisement and partially due to the "heads up" and some of the quick (but not quickest) FWD racers entered in "Street" or "Pro" where they thought they would have a better chance to do well.

Some thoughts on options...

Quick 16 - Fastest 16 qualifiers in the field, any slower cars get bumped to "Street"
+ Great heads up action, draws the fastest cars, fun to race and fun to watch
- Folks who see faster cars in the field may get turned away

or

FWD Bracket - Regular Bracket racing like "Street" or "Pro"
+ Nice that we get to race each other instead of being mixed into "Street" or "Pro"
- A class like this would tyically draw some 19 second Intrepids and not exactly help the exciting show we want to have?
*thought* Maybe have a 13.99 and quicker requirement like a "FWD Pro"?

or

Index - Cars are classed based on ET (Like Nostalgia Super Stock) and then run off that index all weekend.
+ Good racing when you have 10 cars that are 13.0 index, 10 cars that are 12.0 index. and so on
- If we have 10 cars and they all have a different index to run, its pretty much a bracket race?

or

????

PLEASE Discuss!

[bakes]

I always like the quick 16 as this is a class that push the cars to there limit.

[moparman76_69]

Can it be a sport compact class instead of FWD. Kinda hate to limit it to FWD cars with other 4/6 cyls running around. I know you guys would like a Q16 but I need something to level the playing field with all the 10 sec. cars running around.

[forcedfedmopar]

where and when is this event?

[ShelGame]

If you're worried about getting cars in the field, why not have just one entry? Then separate the cars by ET. The fastest 8 or 16 cars go Q8 or Q16, and everyone else races index style (with breakout to prevent sandbagging) based on the qualifying ET. So, 12.0 group, 13.0 group, 14.0 group, 15.0+ group. Having the slowest group be a 15.0+ should scare away the Intrepid drivers. Maybe add a 16.0 if there are some carb SC's running. Street cars, race cars, street tires, race tires, it doesn't matter. Everyone is lined up against relatively competitive cars. If you get enough track time, you could even do a 1st round runner-up bracket race to make sure everyone gets a fair number of passes.

If there are still not going to be enough cars for the indexes, just skip the index race and send the non-Q16 cars to brackets.

[ATaylorRacing]

Old Matchbox still can't run a 16 flat.
I am all for a 4/6 cylinder shootout with a Q8 format and all non-qualifiers in a bracket race...give us slower guys a shot. Also, having a 4/6 cylinder class might bring in a few rear wheel drive cars, though maybe zero from those that showed up last year. This event was HUGE. Matchbox was entered in Trophy, Street, and Box/No Box class and before the rains washed everything away I was able to beat a 9.2 second old school Dart in the Box/No Box class! This year I will need to put more gas in my tank if we can get our own class up and running too. So what if some racer decides to enter his 19 second car, gives us more to feed off of and embaress.

[ohiorob]

A non-V8 shootout would be awesome. it would bring the old and new together. slant 6, V 6, 4. I think the spectators would enjoy it. I know I would.
Don't limit it to just fwd.
I would love to run up against a 6 cylinder dragster. I know I would loose but it would be a blast.

[Ondonti]

Well some people with fast cars are too proud to loose to a faster car so you make a class where people too proud to have a fair race with cars that are incredibly slow but still unbeatable in heads up compared to their own slow car....

Not sure why slow cars mean you must bracket and why fast cars are afraid to lose heads up so they run a bracket where they will do no better...Running brackets with slow fwd cars or big tire auto RWD cars is suicide.
Something to be said for the fun side of things. Almost everyone is going to lose so why kill the fun when it won't change how many people win.

2 classes

Balls
Boring.

Rules should be obvious. People will be happy either way they choose. You can always do a slight index where the faster car still has an advantage but can lose without making a terrible run. Sorta like giving someone a few cars on the starting line.

[ShelGame]

Well some people with fast cars are too proud to loose to a faster car so you make a class where people too proud to have a fair race with cars that are incredibly slow but still unbeatable in heads up compared to their own slow car....

That makes no sense at all to me. I can't even see what you're trying to say. Is that just ranting? A class where someone with a fast car doesn't have to race heads up is called a 'bracket race'.

Not sure why slow cars mean you must bracket and why fast cars are afraid to lose heads up so they run a bracket where they will do no better...Running brackets with slow fwd cars or big tire auto RWD cars is suicide.
Something to be said for the fun side of things. Almost everyone is going to lose so why kill the fun when it won't change how many people win.

Bracket racing is fun. Just because you have apparently never tried it and obviously don't get it doesn't make it not fun.

I suggested the slower cars go into indexes. Ie, cars that qualified between 12.0 and 12.99 race each other heads up. If you go faster than 12.0, you're out. Otherwise, what keeps an 11.5 second car from sandbagging in Q and stealing the race? But, it would really depend on how many cars there were for Q8 or Q16 and in each index. if only 30 cars total show up, it's hard to justify 6 classes.

Heads-up within a class where everyone is playing to the same rules - now that is exiting (ala Top Fuel, Funny Car, SS/A Hemi, etc..). But a wide open heads-up class always goes to the guy with the biggest checkbook; and then nobody else wants to play.

I think the point is that you want this to be fun for the participants. It's not like you're going to have 100k fans in the stands trying to keep them glued to their seats. Yes, almost everyone is going to lose. But, if you break it up into a handful of classes, you could have 3-4 winners instead of just the one guy with a 9 second car.

2 classes

Balls
Boring.

Whatever...

Rules should be obvious. People will be happy either way they choose. You can always do a slight index where the faster car still has an advantage but can lose without making a terrible run. Sorta like giving someone a few cars on the starting line.

Giving someone a few cars on the starting line is BRACKET RACING Brent! What do you think a 'dial-in' is? It's a handicap that says 'I'll let you leave this much earlier than me and I'll still beat you to the stripe.' Putting a time on the windshield just makes it objective. Or maybe you prefer the chest thumping and 'negotiating' over the racing?

[Clay]

where and when is this event?

Monster Mopar Weekend in Indy I'm assuming. Its in September after labor day I believe.

[ShelGame]

Monster Mopar Weekend in Indy I'm assuming. Its in September after labor day I believe.

Doh! I'll be there the week before at the US Nats...

[Clay]

I was wrong! Its towards the end of Sept, the 21, 22, and 23 to be exact!

[ShelGame]

I was wrong! Its towards the end of Sept, the 21, 22, and 23 to be exact!

Doh! again. I'll be in Columbus that weekend for the Jegs Northern SportsNats. Think I might put an 'R' on the windshield this year. It's nearly time for a new engine anyway...

[Force Fed Mopar]

My honest opinion:

Bracket racing is boring to watch. It may be fun when you are driving, but I hate watching it. Heads up is way more exciting.

[ohiorob]

Boostbutton Rob has some very good ideas. the only problem that I can fore see is getting enough cars to show up. it's always been a problem.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for chiming in everyone, keep teh ideas flowing!

A non-V8 shootout would be awesome. it would bring the old and new together. slant 6, V 6, 4. I think the spectators would enjoy it. I know I would.
Don't limit it to just fwd.
I would love to run up against a 6 cylinder dragster. I know I would loose but it would be a blast.

I like that idea... so a non-V8 "little" motor Shootout maybe?

Monster used to have a /6 shootout, I'll touch base with some of those guys.

So if we do a shootout, a "Less than 8" Q16, non-qualifiers fall into "Pro"

or, maybe a "Less than 8 Pro" bracket where you gotta qualify 13.99 or quicker?

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------

Boostbutton Rob has some very good ideas. the only problem that I can fore see is getting enough cars to show up. it's always been a problem.

True story, we know it more than most Rob! LOL!

I like the idea of index classes, but we need to start out small.. maybe move to that in a couple years if we can get enough turnout?

[ShelGame]

My honest opinion:

Bracket racing is boring to watch. It may be fun when you are driving, but I hate watching it. Heads up is way more exciting.

I would dis-agree, but then I do a good amount of bracket racing. In bracket racing, the cars are still racing to the stripe. I admit it's a little odd when there is a huge mis-match. I raced an 9 second Big-Block Opel GT once - he blew by me at like 150mph. But, a 12.7 second car racing a 12.5 second car with a 0.2 second delay is hard to tell the difference from heads up. That's why I suggested qualifying into groups (12.0, 13.0, etc.).

I will agree that heads up CAN be more exiting to watch. But, any racing is only exiting if you don't know who's going to win. Watching a 9 sec car race a 12 sec car 'heads-up' is pretty pointless. The only way the 12 sec car has a chance is if the fast car breaks down. What's the fun in that?

Now, throttle stop or delay box racing - I don't get. Who wants to see a car leave the line hard, only to shut it down immediately for 2 seconds before turning the fire back on?

[22shelby]

i think you got something with the index racing, however you can break it down by class too (given theres enough cars in the fields) in an index class, anything can happen, remeber its not the fastest car that always going to win, it whoever gets the win light, sure you may be the fastest in the index, but if its indexed at say 10.50 and you get the best launch you ever had and run a 10.49, then yeah the slower car will get the light.

13.50, 12.50, 11.50, 10.50, and a Quick class. even if you have 10 cars show up, you have a race, 2 qqual. passes to see how your car is set up for the day and make the needed changes "to get there" that make a class for everyone

imo index would be more exciting and i feel that those breakdowns are pretty standard for any index class race...

[contraption22]

It depends on who you are trying to entertain. Joe Average really doesn't get excited watching bracket racing or index racing. It's really only fun for the racers, or other racers who might be watching. But it is exciting for people that know what's involved in that type of racing.

[BadAssPerformance]

It depends on who you are trying to entertain..

For this, it would be for US, the racers to have fun