Switching the 0-1v stock table with one that reads 0-5v?

[minigts]

I know this may be a long shot, discussed before and so forth, but how complicated would it be to swap the code for one of the different tuning softwares and insert a table to accept wideband values? Does that make sense? I mean I'm looking at this wideband I just bought and I know it only has 0-5v output (I'm assuming for a data logger to provide data on the wideband output), but if the stock computer had a table to read the 0-5v range for the values, could it not just use that table instead of the 0-1v narrowband to do it's calculations? Wouldn't it make the car more efficient? Am I asking too much? Please enlighten me.

[cordes]

I've talked about that with a couple of people in the past. IIRC the consensus was that it could be done, but is probably not worth the trouble.

IIRC the GM guys have done that.

[minigts]

Hmm, ok. Well I was just wondering. I have the 3" exhaust setup for the extra bung, but thought if it could be done or had been done, maybe I could just update my code and start using this thing with my current 2.25" factory exhaust. Oh well...

[cordes]

Hmm, ok. Well I was just wondering. I have the 3" exhaust setup for the extra bung, but thought if it could be done or had been done, maybe I could just update my code and start using this thing with my current 2.25" factory exhaust. Oh well...

Does your WBO2 have a NB output? I run my WB in the stock location and use the simulated O2 output to run the LM. No problems doing it this way. I believe there are several of us who do it like that with no ill effects. I know that Bucar and a couple of others say that they've had trouble with it though.

[minigts]

I got one of the ones Mr. X was selling. It has an output for a data logger, but not a simulated 0-1v output like what the computer will read. My guess is, IF it even read correctly it would read incorrectly and cause the car to run poorly. But I base that on the fact that the range for the factory one is under 1v whereas this can output over that. I have no idea what it will do. :S

[cordes]

I got one of the ones Mr. X was selling. It has an output for a data logger, but not a simulated 0-1v output like what the computer will read. My guess is, IF it even read correctly it would read incorrectly and cause the car to run poorly. But I base that on the fact that the range for the factory one is under 1v whereas this can output over that. I have no idea what it will do. :S

It will get a value outside of what it is expecting and throw an O2 code for (suck rich?)

[turbovanman²]

I really gotta try this 1 volt output thing.

Does it make that much of a difference in MPG?

[minigts]

Well that is what I was thinking, but what is the numeric range for the 0-1v for the narrowband the computer reads? I mean is 0-1v equal to 13-14 on a wideband? At WOT, it shouldn't matter, but cruising I don't know how the ranges would be mapped.

[black86glhs]

Someone hasn't made a table or a script to convert the 0-5V to 0-1V? With all the computer guys on here? Really? Get on the ball you slackers!!!!

[minigts]

Someone hasn't made a table or a script to convert the 0-5V to 0-1V? With all the computer guys on here? Really? Get on the ball you slackers!!!!

Well I didn't want to seem presumptuous, but I am a little surprised we haven't seen code or development for a wideband table integrated with the stock code. Just seems like it would be fairly straight forward, but I know very little about how code is written and the inter-dependencies.

[cordes]

[zin]

I seem to recall having this conversation before... I'm still too ignorant to understand why it isn't/can't be done by... I do understand why it can't be done easily...

As I understand it, simply replacing the 0-1V signal from a narrow band with a "condensed" 0-5V signal wouldn't work due to the differences in the way a narrow vs. wide band produces it's signal.

A wide band will provide a steady 0-5V signal via the signal conditioner that the actual sensor plugs into, whereas the narrow band sensor sends it's actual raw voltage to the computer for analysis.

The raw voltage is basically 0-1V AC voltage, that is, the voltage swings above and below the "0" line, sometimes higher on the top than the bottom, the computer then takes the average (or whatever algorithm it uses) of the two spikes and uses that value.

It may be due to the hardware not being capable, or limitations on the amount of fuel that can be adjusted via O2 in the software... I don't know, but it is frustrating to know that pretty much all the other sensors are 0-5V normally, but we can't seem to integrate the 0-5V wide band signal to work.... But sometimes you just can't get that square peg in that round hole... no matter how big a hammer you have!

I'm sure Rob could do a better job of explaining the problems in making this work, he was a part of the other thread... the one I'm too lazy to look up right now!

Mike

[shackwrrr]

I seem to recall having this conversation before... I'm still too ignorant to understand why it isn't/can't be done by... I do understand why it can't be done easily...

As I understand it, simply replacing the 0-1V signal from a narrow band with a "condensed" 0-5V signal wouldn't work due to the differences in the way a narrow vs. wide band produces it's signal.

A wide band will provide a steady 0-5V signal via the signal conditioner that the actual sensor plugs into, whereas the narrow band sensor sends it's actual raw voltage to the computer for analysis.

The raw voltage is basically 0-1V AC voltage, that is, the voltage swings above and below the "0" line, sometimes higher on the top than the bottom, the computer then takes the average (or whatever algorithm it uses) of the two spikes and uses that value.

It may be due to the hardware not being capable, or limitations on the amount of fuel that can be adjusted via O2 in the software... I don't know, but it is frustrating to know that pretty much all the other sensors are 0-5V normally, but we can't seem to integrate the 0-5V wide band signal to work.... But sometimes you just can't get that square peg in that round hole... no matter how big a hammer you have!

I'm sure Rob could do a better job of explaining the problems in making this work, he was a part of the other thread... the one I'm too lazy to look up right now!

Mike

Slightly true, the sensor doesn't produce AC voltage by itself, it is usually DC. The switching from high to low is from the computer changing the fueling a little bit then seeing what happens. It does this over and over and then you have the oscillating signal (not technically ac, it doesn't pass 0). When doing a datalog of my WBO2 it does switch from high to low just like a NBO2 with the NB sim wire hooked up.

Now with the computer receiving this data in a 0-5v signal, I do not see any advantage. The signal would still be used the same way and mostly at cruise. The computer only needs to know if the AFR is higher or lower than 14.7. If you then gave the computer info over the whole AFR scale then now instead of a 14.3-15.1 swing you now have a 8-22 swing. So I don't think it does any good other than maybe for a WB that doesn't have NB sim capabilities but still it would be too much work for a WB that is only affordable because of that sale. After the sale not at of people are going to buy a 300 dollar wideband that does less than my 150 dollar techedge. I think they are good for a carbed vehicle or something that has multiple o2 sensors already installed and simulating 1 isn't going to change anything.

[black86glhs]

I like the LM doing the work. I don't have to add another box that can get fried or have a problem. That is my line of thinking. It isn't right or wrong, just how I view it. Also, in my case, I won't need two O2 sensors. Until it happens, I use both....lol.

[minigts]

I can post pictures too.

[risen]

There was a whole discussion on here where frank did this. I don't recall whatever became of it but I do recall that it's not as simple as rescaling the table. If i remember correctly it's because there are constants in the cal that have to do with the kicks and the o2 ramp setup and they compare against the o2 adc counts. Search for the thread , all the info you need should be in there.

[cordes]

I really gotta try this 1 volt output thing.

Does it make that much of a difference in MPG?

It does not affect gas mileage.

There was a whole discussion on here where frank did this. I don't recall whatever became of it but I do recall that it's not as simple as rescaling the table. If i remember correctly it's because there are constants in the cal that have to do with the kicks and the o2 ramp setup and they compare against the o2 adc counts. Search for the thread , all the info you need should be in there.

My elephant memory recalls him trying to tighten up the oscillation of the O2, but I don't recall him attempting to convert to the 5v signal?

[risen]

My elephant memory recalls him trying to tighten up the oscillation of the O2, but I don't recall him attempting to convert to the 5v signal?

My memory is notoriously faulty about some stuff, but the thread below has most of the info. I'd read that before chasing this any further.


http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27255

[cordes]

My memory is notoriously faulty about some stuff, but the thread below has most of the info. I'd read that before chasing this any further.


http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27255

I remember that, and thought that he couldn't get it to work so he just smushed the fluctuation. If anyone searches and finds otherwise please post up the link.

[risen]

I remember that, and thought that he couldn't get it to work so he just smushed the fluctuation. If anyone searches and finds otherwise please post up the link.

I actually just read the whole thread again, and I don't see any final statement about how it all turned out. It appears that the last code rev was able to handle a 0-5v input, but I don't see any confirmation that it works.

As a side note, I could put together some code for an arduino to take a wideband 0-5v signal in and map it to a narrowband 0-1v in pretty short order (less than a week for the code), if anyone is interested in that sort of solution. There would be some soldering involved but its pretty simple. The ecu can read the signal, it's just a matter of putting the time into the code for the cal.