Holset vs. the others...

[GLHNSLHT2]

Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo

they are very resistant to surge as well.

brian

Any turbo with a ported compressor housing is going to be resistant to surge. That's the whole point.

[rbryant]

Well I am working on the Holset hy35 for now.

If I get it tuned then perhaps we can do a dyno day and I can drop in some other turbos. My setup will be a standard t3 flange with a 3" vband outlet so I should be able to plug and play most turbos in there.

Anyway it is probably a pipe dream to actually dyno the same car with different turbos on the same day... For all the claims I never see anyone do it.

The problem would be selling the losing turbo. It would be slightly used and also no longer desirable so there is a lot of money to be lost on such a venture...

-Rich

[bansheenut420]

Originally Posted by rbryant

Anyway it is probably a pipe dream to actually dyno the same car with different turbos on the same day... For all the claims I never see anyone do it.

The chart from this dsm I am about to post did it all on the same day. Same tune same everything. Nice thing about dsm turbos is they are right up front.

[bansheenut420]

Originally Posted by turbovanman

How about posting that chart up?

Here ya go. Only reason he stopped the run is because it ran out of fuel on the tune they were running.


Here is one of the reasons I like the holsets.

Look at how much beefier that compressor wheel is on the holset.

[turbovanman]

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

Here ya go. Only reason he stopped the run is because it ran out of fuel on the tune they were running.


Here is one of the reasons I like the holsets.

Look at how much beefier that compressor wheel is on the holset.

Wow, thats a huge difference and it was only going up. Thanks.

[8valves]

Just to put a match to all this...

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

GT series turbos are good turbos, but why pay twice as much for the same performance and less durability. Works pretty damn good on my car being designed for a "diesel" turbo. We should compare dyno numbers when we are both up and running. Let not even get into the fact that the center section is throw away when it goes bad. You can buy a whole new holset just to rebuild your GT series.

Who said less durability? I love Holset's, but there is a reason there isn't a single one on an endurance or rally car. Not that they aren't good enough, but because the GT series dominates in transient response as well as durability.

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

Call me lazy, but the turbo runs out of oil. The motor is GONE! Quicker than the turbo. So, what is the point of that poor comparison? Most of us like to run oil in our motors and turbos. I will keep oil in mine, you worry about pulling the motor and not the turbo. Which will probably be fubared by the crap that will be in your oil after your bearings go.

and I look forward to the dyno sheet. Your running a GT3076, it will look just like the dyno chart I posted on the other site with the dsm making a direct swap between a GT3076r and a holset hx40 pro and made more power. Enough power they had to change the tune to support the extra air. at the same psi. SOHC GT car Vs. DOHC hoslet car. This one is in the bag.

What happens if a good chunk of dirty, carmelized diesel oil plugs your oil feed line, post oil pump? Now, obviously I'm being a bit sarcastic, but nobody said the motor runs out of oil, what if the supply to the turbo becomes restricted for some reason?

I've had it happen on an older Turbonetics turbo. Not much survived.

Oh yeah, and I've got an 8V car for ya'...

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

All great reasons, but JET NOISE FTW! These are some of the loudest turbos I have heard!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1...uns_184008.htm
^^and thats only at 15psi!

I'm sorry, what's that? I couldn't hear you over what a real "jet like" sounding compressor wheel can do...

At approximately 1:00 in...

Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2

Any turbo with a ported compressor housing is going to be resistant to surge. That's the whole point.

Absolutely. And it generally makes the compressor side MUCH louder. See above responses, lol.

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

The chart from this dsm I am about to post did it all on the same day. Same tune same everything. Nice thing about dsm turbos is they are right up front.

Like I said, I love Holset's, and I love DSM's and work with them a lot... enough to not trust anyone's sh*t unless there is a boost datalog to run right along with the graph, as well as AFR's.

Just thought I'd put in a little somethin' somethin'.

[turbovanman]

Originally Posted by 8valves

I'm sorry, what's that? I couldn't hear you over what a real "jet like" sounding compressor wheel can do...

[url="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Freeway-fun-Shelby-and_61073.htm"]At approximately 1:00 in...[/URL

Woo hoo, that was awesome. How much boost?

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

All great reasons, but JET NOISE FTW! These are some of the loudest turbos I have heard!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1...uns_184008.htm
^^and thats only at 15psi!

That also sounds good. Too bad we have no area's like that to do that,

[8valves]

Originally Posted by turbovanman

Woo hoo, that was awesome. How much boost?

Not enough! Ha! It got to a peak of 22 psi back then, when you hear the gate open up. It was loudest on initial spoolup between 3-20 or so psi.

Anti surge covers make pretty much every compressor wheel loud. Holset's are usually exceptionally loud, as well as Borg Warner's. Some of the Garrett's do it as well, though, such as the 45 and up guys. They howl.

[bansheenut420]

Originally Posted by 8valves

Just to put a match to all this...
Who said less durability? I love Holset's, but there is a reason there isn't a single one on an endurance or rally car. Not that they aren't good enough, but because the GT series dominates in transient response as well as durability.

I wont argue how good of a turbo they are. I think they are good turbos. Lots of R and D went into them. I would hope they are that good. But for the money, holsets cant be beat. These are just some turbos that someone decied to try and seem to work as well as the GT counterparts.

Originally Posted by 8valves

What happens if a good chunk of dirty, carmelized diesel oil plugs your oil feed line, post oil pump? Now, obviously I'm being a bit sarcastic, but nobody said the motor runs out of oil, what if the supply to the turbo becomes restricted for some reason?

I've had it happen on an older Turbonetics turbo. Not much survived.

I hope I dont get a chunk of carmelized diesel oil in my brand new holset. I see your point, but just dont ever see that happening if you keep stuff in good order.

Originally Posted by 8valves

Oh yeah, and I've got an 8V car for ya'...

You mean to compare charts with? This is my first car I have ever built, so I am learning as I go. But I would love to compare charts with ya when I am done if thats what you mean. I KNOW you can build a good car.

Originally Posted by 8valves

I'm sorry, what's that? I couldn't hear you over what a real "jet like" sounding compressor wheel can do...

At approximately 1:00 in...

Oh, come on you werent running only 15psi in that run. My car was a quarter of a mile away on one of my videos. Not to mention the cutout was open. The second the "jet sound" is almost just as loud as your right as we take off during the first run. lol I will upload another of my incar vids when it was running a bit more boost (not by choice lol baaaad creep!)
Sick car no less. Looks bad ---, sounds bad ---, and whoops ---. I cant say anything bad about that car. props.

Originally Posted by 8valves

Like I said, I love Holset's, and I love DSM's and work with them a lot... enough to not trust anyone's sh*t unless there is a boost datalog to run right along with the graph, as well as AFR's.

He was running dsm link, I have the file somewhere. He has been a bit of help to me, and he is not some kid so I dont think he has any reason to decive me, plus lots of his dsm buddys have backed up what he has done.

Please dont get me wrong, I am in no way talking ---- about GT turbos. They are good proven turbos. But, I dont like what everyone else has done. I like to try things different. If it works out, cool, if not. Jackson made me a bad --- downpipe that will work with more than just this turbo.

I like these kinds of fun spirited debate threads. And thats all this is to me.

[4cefedomni]

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

Here ya go. Only reason he stopped the run is because it ran out of fuel on the tune they were running.


Here is one of the reasons I like the holsets.

Look at how much beefier that compressor wheel is on the holset.

To be fair the garrett website says the gt3076r is only good for 525hp and thats pretty much what it delivers.

[Ondonti]

Originally Posted by 4cefedomni

To be fair the garrett website says the gt3076r is only good for 525hp and thats pretty much what it delivers.

But did you notice that they spool the same?

[8valves]

Originally Posted by bansheenut420

I wont argue how good of a turbo they are. I think they are good turbos. Lots of R and D went into them. I would hope they are that good. But for the money, holsets cant be beat. These are just some turbos that someone decied to try and seem to work as well as the GT counterparts.



I hope I dont get a chunk of carmelized diesel oil in my brand new holset. I see your point, but just dont ever see that happening if you keep stuff in good order.



You mean to compare charts with? This is my first car I have ever built, so I am learning as I go. But I would love to compare charts with ya when I am done if thats what you mean. I KNOW you can build a good car.



Oh, come on you werent running only 15psi in that run. My car was a quarter of a mile away on my videos. lol I will upload another of my incar vids when it was running a bit more boost (not by choice lol)
Sick car no less. Looks bad ---, sounds bad ---, and whoops ---. I cant say anything bad about that car. props.


He was running dsm link, I have the file somewhere. He has been a bit of help to me, and he is not some kid so I dont think he has any reason to decive me, plus lots of his dsm buddys have backed up what he has done.

Please dont get me wrong, I am in no way talking ---- about GT turbos. They are good proven turbos. But, I dont like what everyone else has done. I like to try things different. If it works out, cool, if not. Jackson made me a bad --- downpipe that will work with more than just this turbo.

I like these kinds of fun spirited debate threads. And thats all this is to me.

I'm glad you could sense that I was being a bit cheeky about the whole thing.

The holset/BW crowd is doing great things with those turbos. They are very good, even when price isn't in consideration!

I dislike the Borg Warner stuff more-so than the Holsets. I think I just have a problem with Dan P of Bullseye. Maybe that's it, . I see the Bullseye housing there so I made the connection. I don't care for his marketing tactics so much, so I think that's where my opinion comes from.

Should your turbo ever be starved? Hell no! Bad luck for me really. However if you don't catch it neither is going to survive.

Thanks for the compliments on the car. It was a blast, and I learned a ton from it. That's why the new one should be so much stronger.

[Ondonti]

BTW, for durability issues.

Even though a gt35r tops out around 34psi...I know people like AMS push them over 40 pounds of boost (way off the map, overspinning).

GT series turbos might be endurance race friendly, not not when ovespinning.
The holsets were made to work up there because whatever they were designed for possibly needed that much boost.

[rx2mazda]

Holset HE351cw on my Spirit R/T and I love it! Kicks my old 50trims A$$. Deciding factor for me was $$$ and then performance/durability/availability. I hope to have some dyno numbers soon as the weather turns.

GT is a superior product, no questions! If money was no object I would be running one but, for the bang for buck, holset dominates. I beat a evo running a GT3076r and when he found out I had a Holset he started laughing and said, "damn I get beat by a car with a turbo 1/2 the price of mine". I let him know it was about 1/4 the price.

[Ondonti]

Eh, my first drive, my duster went 5 miles, oil line to the turbo popped off at night. P body has no oil pressure gauge and my manual gauge didnt have a light.
Motor locked up and turbo was fine.

I think it went 2 miles with no oil. Of course I wasn't banging on it either.

While in the future I could be tempted by a gt42...the borg warner stuff is cheaper.

[turbovanman]

Originally Posted by rx2mazda

Holset HE351cw on my Spirit R/T and I love it! Kicks my old 50trims A$$. Deciding factor for me was $$$ and then performance/durability/availability. I hope to have some dyno numbers soon as the weather turns.

GT is a superior product, no questions! If money was no object I would be running one but, for the bang for buck, holset dominates. I beat a evo running a GT3076r and when he found out I had a Holset he started laughing and said, "damn I get beat by a car with a turbo 1/2 the price of mine". I let him know it was about 1/4 the price.

I can't wait to see your numbers. My new ported head with a 50 trim is stupid faster than before at a lower boost, can't wait to turn it up.

[8valves]

Originally Posted by Ondonti

BTW, for durability issues.

Even though a gt35r tops out around 34psi...I know people like AMS push them over 40 pounds of boost (way off the map, overspinning).

GT series turbos might be endurance race friendly, not not when ovespinning.
The holsets were made to work up there because whatever they were designed for possibly needed that much boost.

That's just going to depend on which turbo is ran where. I know of a 30R DSM at 42 psi making 545 AWHP for well over a year of sanctioned racing and relentless beating. That's so far beyond it's map it's not even funny. I think it did pretty well.

Holset HE351's blow up on Cummins trucks when ran at a sustained 45-50 psi. So... similar PR area, similar power levels... ?

Originally Posted by Ondonti

While in the future I could be tempted by a gt42...the borg warner stuff is cheaper.

Which is when I start laughing. The smaller BW stuff is a good bit cheaper. You get into the bigger BW stuff that is actually designed for cars (The HP wheels and covers) and now you're only a few hundred dollars less than the large frame GT stuff. The used to be bargain BW stuff blew up so big in the Honda world that the price continues to rise but the product doesn't change.

[Vigo]

the price continues to rise but the product doesn't change.

same reason my dreams of supra ownership tanked after fast and furious came out.

im not smart enough for this thread so ill be leaving now..

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by 8valves

Holset HE351's blow up on Cummins trucks when ran at a sustained 45-50 psi.

That's good to know.......So, no long periods of boost past 45psi!

[bansheenut420]

Originally Posted by Shadow

That's good to know.......So, no long periods of boost past 45psi!

Thats what I was thinking.... Keep her around 40. No prob.