Diy alky Td style?

[Omnious]

Has anyone made write up on a Diy on a alky/water injection?

The little info that I have read still has me confused, from using a washer reservoir and pump, to a all out setup. I have been thinking of trying to piece together a system for my GLH. So far I have a few pieces that i have to question. could you guys comment and possibly, better suggest how a kit comes together?

These are my plans so far,
stock GLH fuel pump that I plan to make a fuel cell for,
Vw cold start valve,
Hobbs pressure switch

run the pump in a loop with a restrictive orifice in the return

tia - dave

[cordes]

There are a couple sites with some good info on the subject.

I would check out Carl's setup, as it is pretty darn sweet and has proven to be rather reliable from what I have read.

http://66.78.24.116/index.htm

[jre97]

You may want to consider a good alky safe fuel pump. When they are unused for about a month a standard fuel pump will lock up. I know this from experience.

[89DaytonaTII]

I can't see a cold start inj. flowing enough to justify it's use.

[jre97]

My car uses the wet side of a nitrous fogger nozzle. Bonus changeable jets

[TurboGLH]

http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html

[Omnious]

TurboGLH: that looks like a nice setup, what nozzles/sprayers will be used with that?

89DaytonaTII: I have 2 of these Vw cold start valves, and my plan was to find 2 more of these, but after seeing the link that cordes posted i think i will look for something more simple and low tech

After looking at my buddys twin turbo 350 chev with water/alky injection, I thought that it would be a simple kit, he uses a washer pump and reservoir, my thoughts on this is, if i were to run higher boost like 20 to 30 I would need more pressure from the pump then the washer could provide, he only runs 14 psi with his setup and has no issues with the supply.

could you guys suggest some low cost nozzles/sprayers that would work good?

tia - dave

[cordes]

Originally Posted by Omnious

TurboGLH: that looks like a nice setup, what nozzles/sprayers will be used with that?

89DaytonaTII: I have 2 of these Vw cold start valves, and my plan was to find 2 more of these, but after seeing the link that cordes posted i think i will look for something more simple and low tech

After looking at my buddys twin turbo 350 chev with water/alky injection, I thought that it would be a simple kit, he uses a washer pump and reservoir, my thoughts on this is, if i were to run higher boost like 20 to 30 I would need more pressure from the pump then the washer could provide, he only runs 14 psi with his setup and has no issues with the supply.

could you guys suggest some low cost nozzles/sprayers that would work good?

tia - dave

You could always run a vac line to your alky tank which would pressurize it while under boost to compensate for the resistance.

Also the link that turbo GLH posted lists several nozzes. The nozzles that Carl is using seem like they work great for his setup.

I am really thinking about which way I want to go with my alky scheem for this year. I need to get on it I guess.

[jre97]

Originally Posted by TurboGLH

http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html

Thats setup almost exactly like the system tonyz2897 built for my car. Except for a resevoir I have a 6gallon boat fuel cell in the spare tire compartment and he used an efi pump that only lasted about six moths because it was setting with alchohol in it and locked up.

[Omnious]

Originally Posted by jre97

Thats setup almost exactly like the system tonyz2897 built for my car. Except for a resevoir I have a 6gallon boat fuel cell in the spare tire compartment and he used an efi pump that only lasted about six moths because it was setting with alchohol in it and locked up.

did it lock up while in use? That would scare me if one would fail when In use and depending on it.

I googled diy alky and found a bunch of different links and pages, it gave me a lot of different thoughts and ideas. It seems that most aftermarket and diy setups use a single sprayer/nozzle. I would like to reach around 20 to 25 psi
so I am unsure of how much flow to start with. Is this goal possible with +40's, 3 bar and a walboro 255?

Also I have a few questions about the alky it self,
from what I have read about it, it seems that alot like a 50/50 alky/water mix.
What do you guys like to run? Also have you had any tuning issues with diffrent mixtures? One last noob question, What type of alky does the Alcohol egines use? (like a circle track modified race car)

tia again - dave

[mock_glh]

FYI, the Chrysler FFV cars had fuel systems that are alcohol safe, including the pump, lines, regulator, fuel rail and injectors. Find one of these cars in the junkyard and you can get all that stuff. The pump should be plenty adequate if you're just adding alcohol to your existing fuel.

[Omnious]

Originally Posted by mock_glh

FYI, the Chrysler FFV cars had fuel systems that are alcohol safe, including the pump, lines, regulator, fuel rail and injectors. Find one of these cars in the junkyard and you can get all that stuff. The pump should be plenty adequate if you're just adding alcohol to your existing fuel.

i founf a list of FFv vechicles, is there any way to identify that they are FFV or are they all the same?

http://www.e85fuel.com/pdf/2006_ffv_list.pdf

[Tony Hanna]

Originally Posted by Omnious

did it lock up while in use? That would scare me if one would fail when In use and depending on it.
tia again - dave

Sure didn't. Luckily it locked up sitting while the Daytona was waiting for a new trans.
http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166
There's the write-up I did shortly after putting it together.
I'm going to update that about the pump, and the next system I put together will use a methanol safe pump. I'm pretty certain Shurflow makes a methanol safe pump that's rated at 100 psi. That should be a perfect substitute.

For figuring initial jetting, if your using a nitrous nozzle, any of the jet size calculators on the internet will get you in the ballpark. You just need to remember that it takes approx 20-40% more alcohol than gasoline so increase the horsepower you're planning to support by 40% to start. (I used 10 hp per psi to be safe). Then it's just a matter of plugging the information into the calculator to get your jet size. This should have you safely on the rich side and you can tune for O2 and EGT from there.

Here's an example of how I figured the initial jetting for the alcohol on the Daytona:
Since the stock fuel system supported everything up to 15 psi, I started from there. Figuring for 28 psi, I needed to support the horsepower produced by 13 psi of extra boost. Using 10 hp per psi (to stay safe) that works out to 130 horsepower supported by the alcohol. Since all the jet calculators I've found are based on gasoline, I needed to correct this number for alcohol by adding 40% to it. The corrected horsepower works out to 182. I Plugged this into the horsepower field on the calculator.
All I needed from there was fuel pressure. Assuming a 100 psi pump running unregulated, my actual pressure would be 100 psi minus the boost pressure (28) which works out to 72 psi. plugging those two numbers into a jet calculator such as this one shows that a .032 jet is needed. http://www.3000gtpwr.com/workshop/ni...fuel_jet_s.htm
This is a very rough baseline but it gives you a place to start and should be very safely on the rich side. Even still, it's always a good idea to start with the boost below your target and work up slowly watching your gauges and reading your plugs for evidence of detonation.
If you set your alcohol injection up right, you can hit your goal of 20-25 psi easily with a bone stock fuel system just using the alcohol to supply your extra fuel. I was reliably running 28 psi with no mods to the fuel system other than a zener diode and the alcohol injection.
HTH,

[cordes]

Originally Posted by Omnious

i founf a list of FFv vechicles, is there any way to identify that they are FFV or are they all the same?

http://www.e85fuel.com/pdf/2006_ffv_list.pdf

It is pretty easy to spot a chryco FFV. They have TI manifolds and are MPFI but they have no turbo. I believe that the fuel lines are stainless, and the injectors are stainless to IIRC.

I am going to try and track one down this spring when it gets a little nicer out.

ETA: Finding a ford FFV in the yard would be easy, as those are the ones with the little green leaves on the front fender. They made a ton of taruses and sables, along with rangers that were FFVs. You see them all the time.

[Omnious]

Thanks for the info guys, Tony i guess i never thought to look on bm for a diy guide, That helps a lot. I am off to the yards tomorrow to try and find a FFV to rape a pump out of. I do not plan to have any luck finding one, but if I see more then one I will grab what i can.

How much fuel does your systems averagely (spelling?) use, lets say on a weekly basis? The reason why I am asking this is because I am looking at a 1 gallon cell on ebay, and plan to mount it in the trunk. If it goes for more then I bid, I have a idea of using a cooling system pressurized reservoir(with the threaded pressure cap) if i can find one with a low coolant sensor I think it would work good. I am trying to talk my buddy going half on a 55 gallon of denatured to keep the cost down.

I plan to use the system to support only a few extra psi, and for a little assurance that I will get little to no detonation

[jre97]

Originally Posted by tonyz2897

Sure didn't. Luckily it locked up sitting while the Daytona was waiting for a new trans.

Luckily I was smart enoughto check it before hooking it back up and running high boost . That could have been real bad.

[Tony Hanna]

Originally Posted by jre97

Luckily I was smart enoughto check it before hooking it back up and running high boost . That could have been real bad.

That's why I suggested unhooking the alky and putting the little wastegate can back on it after the trans swap.
I figured it'd be better to get all the bugs ironed out before running the alky and a bunch of boost.

Here's a pump you guys might consider. I think it's what I'm going to use when I get the Sundance together.
http://www.devilsownonline.com/alcoh...products_id=15
HTH,

[cordes]

Originally Posted by tonyz2897

That's why I suggested unhooking the alky and putting the little wastegate can back on it after the trans swap.
I figured it'd be better to get all the bugs ironed out before running the alky and a bunch of boost.

Here's a pump you guys might consider. I think it's what I'm going to use when I get the Sundance together.
http://www.devilsownonline.com/alcoh...products_id=15
HTH,

That looks like a pretty nice pump. I will have to keep that one in mind for sure.

[Tony Hanna]

I think it's just a Shurflow with the Devilsown name on it, but I haven't been able to find one capable of that high pressure for that low of a price.

[TurboGLH]

Originally Posted by tonyz2897

I think it's just a Shurflow with the Devilsown name on it, but I haven't been able to find one capable of that high pressure for that low of a price.

All the shurflow pumps from the 8000 series are capable of that pressure/flow. If you do a little digging you'll see that all the pumps use the exact same parts except the regulator, and you can adjust the one on the 60psi pump to as high as you want. Thats why the price is so low on that kit, it's just a regular 8000 series 60psi pump thats been adjusted up.