What to do with intake for a TIII with a distributor?

[turbovanman²]

Well if you'll dyno it I'll do it

Ok, we'll talk. Swapping the intake on these engines is a 10 min job,

I sure don't want to go too big and I don't want to go too small, its a tough one,

[Garret]

Well I'll make the Frank one (Tiny wienery plenum with MASSIVE TB Boooooo)
and I'll make the Garret one (Big plenum and Normal TB YAY)

And we'll see

Just having some fun Frank

[turbovanman²]

Well my only input is this, the stock manifold will make 400-500 whp so is going larger really worth it?

[Garret]

stock turbos on SRT4s can make 400 is going larger really worth it?

[turbovanman²]

stock turbos on SRT4s can make 400 is going larger really worth it?

Not really, I don't think theres any stock turbo SRT's making that kind of power.

Anyway, my point is simply the stock intake size will easily make that kind of power so why make it larger or in your case, larger still? What are the benefits???

[contraption22]

My brother's 2.4 neon uses a 70mm TB... drivability is just fine.

[Frank]

Large or a lot of intercooler piping only has good effects on a boosted car. According to Corky my car should have no need and experince added lag from running the 2.5 inch pipes I do but when I installed them and every time I have installed larger I/C pipes on a car spool gets better and throttle response goes up(not just turbo dodges).

Real world experince tells me different on that. I tried a 58mm TB on a my 16v motor vs 52mm and the 52 provided way more driveablity and I was able to control the engine response and boost twice as well. It might not seem like a lot but it makes a difference.

The whole point of using large volumed intake manifolds is so you don't have to run retarded amounts of boost to make power on the street. Corky's book was written how many years ago and based on what real world experince? Lots of formula's and science, that doesn't always ring true in the real world. In "my" real world experince everything I have said has made a difference for me. Hell if he had two T3 intake manifolds, I'd happily build one your way and one my way and we can have a shoot out

I understand about real world and I only used it because it actually for once backed up what I was saying. I understand completely about what you are saying about streetability and what you were finding. I agree with you and dont deny that.

However here is why I disagree on what Simon needs. His van is very heavy. When you couple it with the tall gearing and a torque converter that is very loose at the speeds where drivability are an issue, having a larger throttle body is not going to be a problem, especially when coupled with the intake I suggested. If you were to use a 5L intake like you suggested, I think it would be very unstreetable with a 70mm throttle body. Now here is where Corky was right because it plays closely with some of the V8 guys I work with and some of the intake threads I read on TOO's old BB. If you go too large, while it may emphasis the low end of the car, the problem is that the upper end, aka higher velocities, becomes very unstable flow inside the plenum and countless people have issues with a cylinder running lean.

Believe it or not, your idea of 5L intake and smaller throttle body will probably be the same response of a 3L intake and 70mm throttle body. The advantages over the 3L are the "supposed" reductions in uneven flow and it is smaller in size and will work his distributor issue.

[cordes]

To throw my hat into the ring on the TB debate, I would suggest that the reason so many have trouble with a 52, or 58mm TB is that they are running stock electronics, or a custom cal without taking into account the different characteristics of the new TB.

I think there is a lot to be gained in drivability with even a very basic self made custom cal. The drivability especially on startup is night and day between my FWD stg 5 cal in my shadow, and the blueberry self tweeked cal in my omni... very similar setups I would add.

[Garret]

I wouldn't use a 70mm TB with a 5l manifold however

My 2.2 runs a 4.5l plenum'd intake manifold with a 52mm TB.. lots of driveabilty out of boost, in boost it pulls so hard to the redline with a mitsu turbo you'd be very surprised

[iTurbo]

Simon, why have you decided to go with the distributor over the TIII electronics (just curious)? Have you considered running the distributor off one of the cams? I think there was a guy named Edgar or John Lucas that did this long ago. I would probably give Rick D. or Wallace a call if you are set on running a distributor in the stock location.

[turbovanman²]

Simon, why have you decided to go with the distributor over the TIII electronics (just curious)? Have you considered running the distributor off one of the cams? I think there was a guy named Edgar or John Lucas that did this long ago. I would probably give Rick D. or Wallace a call if you are set on running a distributor in the stock location.

I dont' have the R/T wiring or SBEC, cals are extremely limited and also I am running a 2.5L so the dist is the easiest option plus I can retain my current block. Also, making an intake isnt' really a big deal. Wallace has an intake but it won't work with the A/C.

I might look into the dist off the cam thing, but cost wise, the intake is cheaper I would think.

[TurboJerry]

I'd put the distributor on the exhaust cam, and run the stock intake/TB. There's 500 hp with stock stuff. The turbo/intercooler/exhaust would be/is my concern. There's someone car that ran 12.20's with a 46mm TB.... Did everyone forget?

[turbovanman²]

I'd put the distributor on the exhaust cam, and run the stock intake/TB. There's 500 hp with stock stuff. The turbo/intercooler/exhaust would be/is my concern. There's someone car that ran 12.20's with a 46mm TB.... Did everyone forget?

No but its easier now to make more power with less work. Imagine how hard that engine was working.

But thats something else to think about.

[TurboJerry]

Well, if there's 26 psi on *both* sides of the TB, How is that an issue? Maybe the turbo works harder, but I think it's *much* easier to push air then to pull it through. I really don't know the answer, I know the stock intake manifold/head/exhaust manifold will do 500 hp with little trouble if the timing and fuel is right.......

[Speedeuphoria]

I believe Robs 10 sec car runs a 52mm TB, so he should be at 500-550whp

[Frank]

Dont get me wrong on the smaller TB sizes being good for lots of power, but if you are already building an intake, then by golly, do the TB.


Frank

[turbovanman²]

Well, if there's 26 psi on *both* sides of the TB, How is that an issue? Maybe the turbo works harder, but I think it's *much* easier to push air then to pull it through. I really don't know the answer, I know the stock intake manifold/head/exhaust manifold will do 500 hp with little trouble if the timing and fuel is right.......

Jerry, see this thread, its quite interesting, I found that at part throttle, the restriction was huge.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9171

[Frank]

Jerry, see this thread, its quite interesting, I found that at part throttle, the restriction was huge.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9171

I wouldnt call that a restriction though! You are at part throttle because you dont want to be fast. So guess what... it is a restriction to keep you from going fast. It is only doing what you command. hehehe

[turbovanman²]

I wouldnt call that a restriction though! You are at part throttle because you dont want to be fast. So guess what... it is a restriction to keep you from going fast. It is only doing what you command. hehehe

Hehehehe, yeah, but its neat seeing the restriction that the blade causes. My van is down so haven't had chance to recheck with the larger TB.

[4cefedomni]

i need to make a custom intake for my car too i bought one of those northstar v8 75mm throttle bodies and it came with the tps and idle motor. i once drove a newer tercel and its was a tiny little motor and its power suprised the hell outa me so i had a good look at the motor and its intake looks like a header with really long runners, so something similar is what i have in mind i figure that 75mm would mate pretty well to a 3inch header collector and then i could just run mild steel tubing and weld it all up myself. any thoughts on this Frank?