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Thread: The Singh Slash

  1. #41
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Nice link Scott. My only concern with those grooves is the concentration of gases against one tiny spot on the head gasket. It could act like a blow torch if you go lean.
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  2. #42
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Now we get onto the flame propagation properties. This is where MrGroove gets things wrong. He shows laminar flame in his thinking and his diagrams, and ingores swirl. Yes laminar flame is present, however only along the air jet and typically in the direction of the air jet when swirl is present. (I have a picture of this also) Since the air is being squeezed from outside to the inside, flame doesnt propigate per his groove idea. This is why such emphasis is given by "real" engine builders to have the piston's quench area to match combustion chamber's shape. This ensurse that all air/fuel mixtures get squished out into the main chamber, otherwise it doesnt get burned until you are already on the power/down stroke and are not contributing to adding good pwoer.

    The pictures of the swirl aplication have the flame starting at the side of the cylinder b/c that is where the spark is. True the flame will follow the direction of the swirl flow but it will start where ever the spark is like is seen on the center spark with no swirl pictures. This being said the flame would definately propogate from the inside, albeit not center, to the outside of the cylinder. It won't go in a symetrical radius because of the swirl flow but that doesn't mean the grooves can't have any results.

    I see alot of people whining that the grooves alone do not make power without changing other things like compression. Well niether would a turbo if you slapped it on and never ran above atmospheric. In fact you would probably notice decreased power because of the added exhaust restriction. The addition of a turbo allows you to take advantage of above atmospheric pressures just like the grooves allow you to increase your compression without detonation. The whole point of them is to allow modifications that otherwise wouldn't be possible.

    But like others I have don't have grooves, I have never tested them and my opinions are just that. I definately don't think the theory is completely flawed though and in my mind it definately has it's merits.

    DJ

  3. #43
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    I'd like to see back to back dyno sheets with the same exact head, first dyno it uncut and then cut it and re-dyno it with no other changes, swapped on the same day for temp and barometer concerns. Has anyone done this?
    I told you it has been done. But, I could show you any graphs that I pull out of my arse.

    Anyways.... my shop did extensive dyno tests on this with zero results and not at the low level, either.

    Now Frank's posts are pretty much in agreement as well based on fact/theory.

    I'd rather spend countless hours developing a better port and chamber shape tham playing with grooves and dimples. Kinda like wasting time with a false idol I believe.

    But if it does indeed work, I have no problem eating my words even though numerous Busch league engines saw zero hp improvement from this at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
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  4. #44
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    The pictures of the swirl aplication have the flame starting at the side of the cylinder b/c that is where the spark is. True the flame will follow the direction of the swirl flow but it will start where ever the spark is like is seen on the center spark with no swirl pictures. This being said the flame would definately propogate from the inside, albeit not center, to the outside of the cylinder. It won't go in a symetrical radius because of the swirl flow but that doesn't mean the grooves can't have any results.
    I know that it generates from the spark plug and out, but within the point I was making. I guess I should have chosen my words better, but albeit, I think you guys got the point.


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  5. #45
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    I told you it has been done. But, I could show you any graphs that I pull out of my arse.

    Anyways.... my shop did extensive dyno tests on this with zero results and not at the low level, either.

    Now Frank's posts are pretty much in agreement as well based on fact/theory.

    I'd rather spend countless hours developing a better port and chamber shape tham playing with grooves and dimples. Kinda like wasting time with a false idol I believe.

    But if it does indeed work, I have no problem eating my words even though numerous Busch league engines saw zero hp improvement from this at work.
    Amen and Amen..... even matching quench areas would be mice too!!!!
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  6. #46
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    My only thought regarding the slash is this:

    If they produced more power, lowered egts, and allowed lower octane fuel (or any combination of these) The factory would do it for you.

    I understand mpg mikes point of allowing for more boost, lower octane fuels ect. in the event that the engine is pushed well beyond it's design limits. This could be a positive thing. BUT most of the cal burners out there can accomplish the same thing.

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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow88 View Post
    My only thought regarding the slash is this:

    If they produced more power, lowered egts, and allowed lower octane fuel (or any combination of these) The factory would do it for you.


    Probably true... but there are alot of things the factory never did to help performance/MPG etc due to the increased costs.

    All Mopar Big Blocks should have been 426 hemis. At least max wedge head designs.... but...cost effectiveness.

    Look at how long it took Mopar to come out with a dohc 4-cylinder? GM had a 4-valve per cylinder V-8 before we even had the trickle down technology in the inline fours. The japs been doing multi valves and dohc desings way before that, as well.

    I am like 85% not buying into these techniques, but the other 15% makes me want to at least kinda listen.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

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  8. #48
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    I told you it has been done. But, I could show you any graphs that I pull out of my arse.
    I heard ya the first time. My comment was to mpgmike and anyone touting this as beneficial to teh 2.2L/2.5L turbo mopar engines. Has anyone done this comparision on our engines? Fiction until proven fact.

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  9. #49
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Well... Turboking did...hence the reason for this thread
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

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  10. #50
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    Well... Turboking did...hence the reason for this thread
    Are there before and after dyno plots?

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  11. #51
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    probably not
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

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  12. #52
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    probably not
    ...and there you have it.

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  13. #53
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    ..except for the before and after dyno plots of the SBC Busch series engines from my shop that I'll have to coerce from the owner if he's willing to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

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  14. #54

    Re: The Singh Slash

    Hi All,
    I'm finishing up a set of SBF heads this weekend, here's a picture.

    I'm using the two groove layout like the BBC heads I did earlier this
    winter. I don't know if this design has advantages over the single
    groove stuff I do, I'm hoping for the best. As with many of the heads
    I have grooved, the two BBC engines I did this year are "grooves only"
    for what it's worth.

    Hi Sheen & MPG Mike, whats up?

    Hi Steve, I'd love to see the the Bush numbers!


  15. #55
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Hi AB. Welcome to TM.

  16. #56

    Re: The Singh Slash

    Thanks ssheen,

    Are you doing any upgrades during the cold of winter?

  17. #57
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    I did already. Put on a home built S70 turbo, a friend's very nice log header, and the ST valves from Metric Mechanic. I had to change the head because of a crack. The head I put on has my attempt at the grooves. I attempted to follow your advice on them. If you have a look let me know what you think. I was able to successfully run a 87 octane.

    Here is a thread on it on yet another forum about the 87 octane test.
    http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=128644

    Have pics in the gallery on my site.
    www.sheenconsulting.com/car

  18. #58
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Hey AB. Did you gleen anything from discussions with dana44? I'm finding value in both technologies.

    Mike

  19. #59

    Re: The Singh Slash

    SSheen,
    I did see your grooved head, it looks great and sounds like you were successful
    running 87 octane!

    Mike,
    I understand the edging and will incorporate it in what I'm doing eventually.

    I only recently went to multiple grooves and didn't want to make too many
    changes at once. The local race tracks are up and running so I should be
    hearing about the two groove BBC engines I did during the off season.


  20. #60
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: The Singh Slash

    Anyone use those grooves long term? anyone melt the head in those grooves? what about blowing out the head gasket concentrating those grooves at the firing ring? Is placement a science or just put them where you think?
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