The Singh Slash

[BadAssPerformance]

It looks like it dosent make your car run any worse, so why not try it when you get a chance.

I don't spend money on 'performance' mods that are not gauranteed to add 'performance'.

What testing?

...and was it on a Turbo Mopar?

Sorry but a head is a head and an engine is an engine are not true. A SBC head it an entirely different animal than a 2.2L head, not to mention the forced induction part where the air is pushed thru rather than sucked into.

[ssheen]

What testing?

Check out the PDFs

http://www.herningg.com/singh/


I love the ionization graphs. They show the grooves are have an effect. At the least helping make the combustion events less erratic from one event to the next. It is interesting to see the effect they have on when the peak pressure is and how high (torque).

The lower EGTs is something I have notice myself. It was good to see a mostly positive effect on the emissions. (higher NOx sometimes)

Though the mileage was not tested explictly, we can see the thermal efficieny (how well gas is converted to power) TE% is higher with the grooves.

I am a little disappointed in that, sometimes, it shows a slow down of the combustion process. But I guess that explains why people report they can run more timing

Would of been interesting to see some testing where the setup was tuned for the grooves as well.

[Frank]

Check out the PDFs

http://www.herningg.com/singh/


I love the ionization graphs. They show the grooves are have an effect. At the least helping make the combustion events less erratic from one event to the next. It is interesting to see the effect they have on when the peak pressure is and how high (torque).

The lower EGTs is something I have notice myself. It was good to see a mostly positive effect on the emissions. (higher NOx sometimes)

Though the mileage was not tested explictly, we can see the thermal efficieny (how well gas is converted to power) TE% is higher with the grooves.

I am a little disappointed in that, sometimes, it shows a slow down of the combustion process. But I guess that explains why people report they can run more timing

Would of been interesting to see some testing where the setup was tuned for the grooves as well.

I am referring to Simon's statement.... I have seen the link you listed above, but somethings just don't jive.... I am still trying to take it all in.

[ssheen]

I understand that Frank. I am as well. Lots of info there. Curious to hear your thoughts once it is digested.

[cs daytona]

The testing shows gains at mid area, and not really anything at WOT which is where Pro Stock, etc is, WOT, lol!

also all the improvements were to emissions and egts, where we would benefit from the lower egts. and we might be just that much closer to havin a 'green' car lol

[Directconnection]

I believe it works in some cases. Those cases are where inefficient combustion is happening and needs this fix. Even a SBC head differs GREATLY as there are so many iterations of them.

But, a great cylinder head design doesn't need the help in the 1st place. That's why we aren't seeing them in NASCAR or Top Fuel heads (I've seen both in person and were recent heads)

Our heads are of poor design, and maybe they can actually benefit from them. I'll take the other approach and learn to walk, crawl, or jog instead of shooting for the sprint.

Master the basics 1sts... exhaust and master the standard approach to porting, and once you have attained that level (nobody here has) then dig deep to pull out all tricks for the advantage.

I will gaurantee that if you take 2 heads: One ported to a mastererful piece that flows substantially with good velocity, etc, and another with no porting, but the grooves, the one ported properly to move the air will be head and shoulders above the slash head.

[cs daytona]

I believe it works in some cases. Those cases are where inefficient combustion is happening and needs this fix. Even a SBC head differs GREATLY as there are so many iterations of them.

But, a great cylinder head design doesn't need the help in the 1st place. That's why we aren't seeing them in NASCAR or Top Fuel heads (I've seen both in person and were recent heads)

Our heads are of poor design, and maybe they can actually benefit from them. I'll take the other approach and learn to walk, crawl, or jog instead of shooting for the sprint.

Master the basics 1sts... exhaust and master the standard approach to porting, and once you have attained that level (nobody here has) then dig deep to pull out all tricks for the advantage.

I will gaurantee that if you take 2 heads: One ported to a mastererful piece that flows substantially with good velocity, etc, and another with no porting, but the grooves, the one ported properly to move the air will be head and shoulders above the slash head.

the slash has nothing to do with airflow just combustion characteristics

travis

[Directconnection]

the slash has nothing to do with airflow just combustion characteristics

travis

I know that.

What I am saying is master the basics... the tried and true methods before diving into advanced engineering.

For us... there is far more HP to be found by improving portwork methods via R+D than there will be with slashes and groove technology.

[cs daytona]

oh, for a second there i thought you didnt know what you were talking about. lol but good point. i just did it cus the head was off anyway and that was my only car and i couldnt afford to do a port yet. so why the hell not id try something new.

travis

[starman]

Got my hybrid running again. The only thing i changed was my bearings, rings, had the same pistons, rods and crank redone. I am using the same head , block, intake, turbo, cams. I did this
http://somender-singh.com/content/view/68/49/
to the head
The difference is night and day. the motor reeves quicker and at idle it dont move, video comming

How well is doing this engine so far?

[Directconnection]

A former employee of the race engine shop that I work at stopped by last July. He is way up in the R+D at Hendricks Motorsports and I was fortunate enough to talk with him for a few minutes (NHIS race in NH...he was sorta local)

They still do not do slashes and grooves. Bandaid fix for improper design and show no real gains.

[ssheen]

It depends on the gains one is looking for. Lower EGTs and Lower emissions have been shown in dyno testing. Combustion characteristics are of a higher octane fuel than what is being used.

[Directconnection]

so why is Hendricks not using them then?

[BadAssPerformance]

Or in general, how come OEM's, NASCAR, or any engine developer that is looking for every ounce of gain and has the funds and resources to prove or disprove anything dont use it?

Snake oil.

[black86glhs]

Wow, talk about an old thread. I just can't believe something just because it is posted on a forum or on the internet. What I mean is, I need to see it in person and be there for everything. There are too many things that could have been changed that can't be seen in a post. Some would say its a sad way to look at it, but I don't. If they won't or I am not allowed to see it in person, it would make me think.
It has to be tested one step at a time. As soon as someone talks about doing a step by step, people start chiming in with "but you have to" or "it won't work unless." You do the exact same thing to both setups. Many wanted to put the cart before the horse. I know, discussed long ago, but haven't really seen anything about it lately.
You could do no groove, one groove, two grooves and three grooves and see if one works better than the others.

[ssheen]

JT, no idea why others are not using it. I think you said it already though. The grooves are a bandaid.

I suspect, in newer set ups where turblence is maximised from other design changes, the grooves may have nothing to offer. I know a few people that run them with our 782 and G-heads with success that they are happy with. I have talked with Automotivebreath a few times. He seems to have lots of success with his older big block stuff, and others.

If I had more time and money I would like to run the same head I have now, with out them, in favour of other mods. To see what would happen.

A very in depth study of the grooves. I love the ionization stuff. Would kill to put that on the car hooked into a MS system.
http://www.herningg.com/singh/

[BadAssPerformance]

JT, no idea why others are not using it. I think you said it already though. The grooves are a bandaid.

The only way bandaids work is if they are solving a problem, or if they are the least restriction in a system, as in after everything else is maxed out. After everything else is maxed out, will they even make a difference? Shouldnt even need a bandaid at that point.