Nice link Scott. My only concern with those grooves is the concentration of gases against one tiny spot on the head gasket. It could act like a blow torch if you go lean.
Nice link Scott. My only concern with those grooves is the concentration of gases against one tiny spot on the head gasket. It could act like a blow torch if you go lean.
1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.
Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info
Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info
The pictures of the swirl aplication have the flame starting at the side of the cylinder b/c that is where the spark is. True the flame will follow the direction of the swirl flow but it will start where ever the spark is like is seen on the center spark with no swirl pictures. This being said the flame would definately propogate from the inside, albeit not center, to the outside of the cylinder. It won't go in a symetrical radius because of the swirl flow but that doesn't mean the grooves can't have any results.
I see alot of people whining that the grooves alone do not make power without changing other things like compression. Well niether would a turbo if you slapped it on and never ran above atmospheric. In fact you would probably notice decreased power because of the added exhaust restriction. The addition of a turbo allows you to take advantage of above atmospheric pressures just like the grooves allow you to increase your compression without detonation. The whole point of them is to allow modifications that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
But like others I have don't have grooves, I have never tested them and my opinions are just that. I definately don't think the theory is completely flawed though and in my mind it definately has it's merits.
DJ
I told you it has been done. But, I could show you any graphs that I pull out of my arse.
Anyways.... my shop did extensive dyno tests on this with zero results and not at the low level, either.
Now Frank's posts are pretty much in agreement as well based on fact/theory.
I'd rather spend countless hours developing a better port and chamber shape tham playing with grooves and dimples. Kinda like wasting time with a false idol I believe.
But if it does indeed work, I have no problem eating my words even though numerous Busch league engines saw zero hp improvement from this at work.
Originally Posted by 22mopar
Steve
'90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'92 IROC R/T - red
'67 Barracuda 273 now, 440/727 awaits....
Frank Katzenberger
Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
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87 Shelby CSX #418 - Near stock is a good thing!
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Frank Katzenberger
Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
http://www.squirrelpf.com
91 Daytona Shelby - It is getting there
87 Shelby CSX #418 - Near stock is a good thing!
94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top
"... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"
Visit the new Knowledge Center today!
Check out the one and only Shelby Dodge Registry!
My only thought regarding the slash is this:
If they produced more power, lowered egts, and allowed lower octane fuel (or any combination of these) The factory would do it for you.
I understand mpg mikes point of allowing for more boost, lower octane fuels ect. in the event that the engine is pushed well beyond it's design limits. This could be a positive thing. BUT most of the cal burners out there can accomplish the same thing.
Probably true... but there are alot of things the factory never did to help performance/MPG etc due to the increased costs.
All Mopar Big Blocks should have been 426 hemis. At least max wedge head designs.... but...cost effectiveness.
Look at how long it took Mopar to come out with a dohc 4-cylinder? GM had a 4-valve per cylinder V-8 before we even had the trickle down technology in the inline fours. The japs been doing multi valves and dohc desings way before that, as well.
I am like 85% not buying into these techniques, but the other 15% makes me want to at least kinda listen.
Originally Posted by 22mopar
Steve
'90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'92 IROC R/T - red
'67 Barracuda 273 now, 440/727 awaits....
JT
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Well... Turboking did...hence the reason for this thread
Originally Posted by 22mopar
Steve
'90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'92 IROC R/T - red
'67 Barracuda 273 now, 440/727 awaits....
JT
SDAC Director
SDAC-Chicago President
JOIN SDAC and your local Chapter TODAY! - SUPPORT the CLUB that supports YOUR HOBBY!
87 Shelby Z - 10.50@141.66mph
87 CSX #751 Clone - 12.88@102.88mph
www.badassperformance.com
Check out Turbo-Mopar Times!
Submit your 1/4 mile times HERE!!
Support SDAC! Join Today!
"I'm not some pro athlete with a bajillion dollars, I'm just an every man"
Note: The information and any images provided in this post are not for distribution outside this forum without the author's permission.
probably not
Originally Posted by 22mopar
Steve
'90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'92 IROC R/T - red
'67 Barracuda 273 now, 440/727 awaits....
JT
SDAC Director
SDAC-Chicago President
JOIN SDAC and your local Chapter TODAY! - SUPPORT the CLUB that supports YOUR HOBBY!
87 Shelby Z - 10.50@141.66mph
87 CSX #751 Clone - 12.88@102.88mph
www.badassperformance.com
Check out Turbo-Mopar Times!
Submit your 1/4 mile times HERE!!
Support SDAC! Join Today!
"I'm not some pro athlete with a bajillion dollars, I'm just an every man"
Note: The information and any images provided in this post are not for distribution outside this forum without the author's permission.
..except for the before and after dyno plots of the SBC Busch series engines from my shop that I'll have to coerce from the owner if he's willing to do so.
Originally Posted by 22mopar
Steve
'90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'91 Spirit R/T - white
'92 IROC R/T - red
'67 Barracuda 273 now, 440/727 awaits....
Hi All,
I'm finishing up a set of SBF heads this weekend, here's a picture.
I'm using the two groove layout like the BBC heads I did earlier this
winter. I don't know if this design has advantages over the single
groove stuff I do, I'm hoping for the best. As with many of the heads
I have grooved, the two BBC engines I did this year are "grooves only"
for what it's worth.
Hi Sheen & MPG Mike, whats up?
Hi Steve, I'd love to see the the Bush numbers!
Hi AB. Welcome to TM.
Thanks ssheen,
Are you doing any upgrades during the cold of winter?
I did already. Put on a home built S70 turbo, a friend's very nice log header, and the ST valves from Metric Mechanic. I had to change the head because of a crack. The head I put on has my attempt at the grooves. I attempted to follow your advice on them. If you have a look let me know what you think. I was able to successfully run a 87 octane.
Here is a thread on it on yet another forum about the 87 octane test.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=128644
Have pics in the gallery on my site.
www.sheenconsulting.com/car
Hey AB. Did you gleen anything from discussions with dana44? I'm finding value in both technologies.
Mike
SSheen,
I did see your grooved head, it looks great and sounds like you were successful
running 87 octane!
Mike,
I understand the edging and will incorporate it in what I'm doing eventually.
I only recently went to multiple grooves and didn't want to make too many
changes at once. The local race tracks are up and running so I should be
hearing about the two groove BBC engines I did during the off season.
Anyone use those grooves long term? anyone melt the head in those grooves? what about blowing out the head gasket concentrating those grooves at the firing ring? Is placement a science or just put them where you think?
1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.
Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info
Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info