Megasquirt and Variants Running Thread

[cordes]

I'm officially a believer now that I have the Joytona running on Microsquirt. It's cheap and fairly easy to get up and running. I noticed that there wasn't just a running thread for the different Megasquirt based systems like there are for the different Turbonator cal codebases, so I thought I would start one.

I just ordered up a MS3Pro Lite for Joy's Shelby Lancer. I'll take my first loss on getting one of these cars to run right after all I've been through with that thing and how intermittent the miss still is. Regardless, it a couple weeks, it'll be on the new system and presumably running well.

If anyone has any answers, I'll be grateful, as I know that I'll be full of questions. If there are some who haven't the foggiest what all of this is about, I could help with the very basics of it all.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

YES !!!!
Just officially joined the club too
I use to install the old MS1 stuff on VWs back in the day, we just had pre-loaded programs we loaded and sent them on their way
I bought a DIY MS2 like 18 years ago but got hung up over thinking the crank trigger and never did anything with it

Pre-covid I bought a MS3Pro for the 2.4t D50 build but it's still sealed in the box

fast forward to 2024
determined to go standalone

I now make and sell weld on crank triggers for our cars if anyone is looking

I'll even share my super simple bracket for the sensor
talking with Jaren @ SDAC about his MS Gold Box (basically same as the MS3Pro)
which is made by EFI Source , like 35-40 minutes from my house
I drove there and picked up the MS Gold Box Lite (same as the MS3Pro Lite)
Wired it hastily under a tent , through the rain storms and humid/hot nights and had it running in less the a week
Loaded the base tune, scaled my sensors

THE CAR FIRED AND RAN 1ST TURN OF THE KEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
How awesome is that !! Don't get me wrong , tons of adjustments need to be made .... but it runs !

I certainly don't know a ton yet , but definitely willing to share what I know and learn along the way

["Top Fuel" Bender]

1 thing I didn't know starting all this
You can run "Semi-sequential" with a Coil on Plug setup by just a crank trigger

I thought you needed a cam sensor
but it'll run batch fire for the injectors
and the Coil on Plug gets set to wasted spark (didn't know that was a thing w/ COP)
Now i will be adding a cam sensor but the option was nice to get the car running quickly

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Few tips to add for those just starting out

READ THE MANUALS
READ THE MANUALS
READ THE MANUALS

LOL , read and read , then when your eyes start glazing over
reread and do it one step at a time

I will say there is a bunch of cut and pasting in the manual
especially if you have a mini/micro/lite ect...
I've noticed a few times where the referenced different connectors (Micro/Lite only have one connector)
There's a ton of info for different coil and injector configurations that you'll never need
Some things are better described later in the manual , then when you might actually need it
like the ability for COP wasted spark and wiring them ect..
I ended up printing the manual out, then pulled out the pages I think I won't need and stapled them in sections for quick reference


One of BIGGEST goof ups from skimming through and thinking it's simple
Wiring the INJECTORS and COILS
One might think INJ 1 is Cyl 1 ..... and it is
and INJ 2 is Cyl 2 .... nope it's Cyl 3
er....
all the Injectors and Coils are wired in the firing order 1,3,4,2
crap.... do it again
and like said above about info the "wrong" spots .... since it's not in the wiring diagram
one might assume batch fire you'd join 1&2 3&4 for the injectors
NOPE ! wire them individually and the computer will fire them on it's own


Also noted
On the GoldBoxLite my AIS/IAC wire colors to match the lettering
ex. IAC 1A 1B colors on the lettered wires are flipped with the colors for the 2A 2B as per the diagram
I followed the lettering and seems to work just fine

The generic "relay wiring" diagram is off
they show the fuel pump being trigger the same time the coil/injector relay is (which would cause the pump to run constantly)

Still need to figure out the fan
there is a "fan relay trigger wire
but no fan output to trigger in TunerStudio
I saw GoldBox shows to use "idle" trigger (which i thought was for certain IAC controls)
waiting for my new alternator to show up so I can get back working on this

[cordes]

Thanks for all of that info, Bruce. I recall reading that the MS Lite has inj A,B,C,D etc. and they're in firing order, not cyl number, but that's a good reminder.

When you were talking about the AIC, are you suggesting that you're using the stock stepper motor Idle Air Control valve? Perhaps the Gold Box Lite has the stepper motor driver where the MS3 Lite doesn't? Unless I'm off about this, I thought the MS Lite wouldn't use the stock stepper idle valve. That would be good news indeed if it does. I checked yesterday, and the VW idle valve which everyone uses is $80 or more. Yikes.

I think I can actually help with the fan relay. The MS just triggers the coil ground on the relay. The gray wire coming off the fusible link which runs to the fan relay should carry the power, and the green wire is the power to the fan. I forget the other colors for the relay coil power and ground trigger wire from the LM. You may already know all of that, but regardless if you hook up the ground wire to your output in the MS it'll turn it on. I've attached a screen shot of how mine looks for the Microsquirt. It definitely works as it should.

[jpcturbo]

> THE CAR FIRED AND RAN 1ST TURN OF THE KEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's really awesome Bruce! Great work and congrats!

There's got to be some coolant temp protection thing that turns on the fan. Look for "Thermo fan"??

Jeff

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Thanks for all of that info, Bruce. I recall reading that the MS Lite has inj A,B,C,D etc. and they're in firing order, not cyl number, but that's a good reminder.

When you were talking about the AIC, are you suggesting that you're using the stock stepper motor Idle Air Control valve? Perhaps the Gold Box Lite has the stepper motor driver where the MS3 Lite doesn't? Unless I'm off about this, I thought the MS Lite wouldn't use the stock stepper idle valve. That would be good news indeed if it does. I checked yesterday, and the VW idle valve which everyone uses is $80 or more. Yikes.

I think I can actually help with the fan relay. The MS just triggers the coil ground on the relay. The gray wire coming off the fusible link which runs to the fan relay should carry the power, and the green wire is the power to the fan. I forget the other colors for the relay coil power and ground trigger wire from the LM. You may already know all of that, but regardless if you hook up the ground wire to your output in the MS it'll turn it on. I've attached a screen shot of how mine looks for the Microsquirt. It definitely works as it should.

Correct, the MS GoldBox Lite has provisions for a 4-wire AIC allowing use of our stock AIC with dual coils
does not have Knock or Vehicle Speed Sensor pre-loaded (Need a GoldBox or MS3Pro for those options)
though you might be able to with expansion

For those following along the MS GoldBox Lite has provisions for flex fuel, switched datalog , dual O2 as well as other options I'm still learning

Figured out the FAN Control, it needs to be selected as FIDLE in the pull down on the MS GoldBox Lite

["Top Fuel" Bender]

> THE CAR FIRED AND RAN 1ST TURN OF THE KEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's really awesome Bruce! Great work and congrats!

There's got to be some coolant temp protection thing that turns on the fan. Look for "Thermo fan"??

Jeff

THANKS !! It was a great relief to hear it fire so quickly with all the changes

Yes there is a whole Fan Control tab
let's you turn fan on/off with coolant temp, WOT , VSS depending on speed ect...
wire in the MS GoldBox Lite was labeled FAN (Like Cordes said , it'll ground out the switched side of high powered relay
but there was on drop down option under Fan trigger, GoldBox manual said use "IDLE" (which i thought was for AIC)
but I saw in another post to use "FIDLE" and that worked on my MS GoldBox Lite
Also strange that there isn't a "test" mode option for fan but there is for injectors/coils/AIC/ ect....
which was frustrating , I just turned the temp down to 100 to kick it on early

[cordes]

Correct, the MS GoldBox Lite has provisions for a 4-wire AIC allowing use of our stock AIC with dual coils
does not have Knock or Vehicle Speed Sensor pre-loaded (Need a GoldBox or MS3Pro for those options)
though you might be able to with expansion

For those following along the MS GoldBox Lite has provisions for flex fuel, switched datalog , dual O2 as well as other options I'm still learning

Figured out the FAN Control, it needs to be selected as FIDLE in the pull down on the MS GoldBox Lite

Wow. Keeping the 4 wire AIS control feature is a huge bonus for that version.

[cordes]

How is everyone getting their cam signal off of the distributor? Just drilling and tapping the dist. and cutting off three of the tabs? That's my current plan.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

How is everyone getting their cam signal off of the distributor? Just drilling and tapping the dist. and cutting off three of the tabs? That's my current plan.

that was gonna be my plan , just need to figure out which one to cut , at least there's a bunch of adjustment available
I was actually thinking of using the factory HEP with just the one tooth, but them remind myself that i'm trying to make it more reliable hahaha

[cordes]

that was gonna be my plan , just need to figure out which one to cut , at least there's a bunch of adjustment available
I was actually thinking of using the factory HEP with just the one tooth, but them remind myself that i'm trying to make it more reliable hahaha

From what little reading I did, it appears as though it doesn't matter where the vane is so long as it's not in front of the sensor while the crank sensor is over the missing tooth? I need to read that paragraph again, but it seems simple enough if that's how it really is.

I think I'll cut up one of the TBI distributors I have lying around, as they'll not be used for anything ever.

I'm really hoping to get the Shelby Lancer up and running in the next week or so.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

gotcha , knew it wasn't super critical , thought there was a certain range of degrees they wanted it before the missing tooth, but I just skimmed through

Good luck luck with it and keep us posted

[cordes]

I have the coils mocked up with some wires on them. I modified the distributor today also. In the future I may tap the dist for the 12x1.0 thread rather than use the two nuts alone.

[cordes]

The lancer fired up on the first try and idled beautifully right out of the gate. I was only off by 3* on the timing angle too. The second time converting one of these cars was a lot easier on the actual startup process, though there are still quite a few things I would do differently. However, given that I drove the car around town with relative ease and the fact that I'll be able to easily put AC back in the car, I'm happy.

To be honest, I'm surprised the sequential injection and individual coils went so well. That was super easy. The hardest part was setting up my 14.7 wideband unit to work over the CAN bus. Once I followed the directions for all of the individual settings on their page, it worked flawlessly.

Frankly, the only problem I have right now is that the R/F blinker doesn't blink at all. The R/R works, and the front bulb appears to be good, so that's a bit of a mystery.

I hope everyone else is having great success with their conversions. More importantly, I hope everyone is enjoying the reliable electronics now running the show.

ETA:

What do you auto trans guys do about the idle in regard to the fact that when you put it in gear it drags the car down? Is than an idle valve thing, or is there something else I need to be looking at? Can I use the park switch to actuate an output to adjust things?

[tryingbe]

What's your idle speed and spark table look like?

[cordes]

I'm not sure which idle speed table you're referencing. I know there's the one which will add timing and subtract it based on whether or not you're RPM is below the target or higher. I attempted to attach the table files from MS, but it won't take them on here. Does anyone know how to get them in a format the site will accept?

[tryingbe]

I'm not sure which idle speed table you're referencing. I know there's the one which will add timing and subtract it based on whether or not you're RPM is below the target or higher. I attempted to attach the table files from MS, but it won't take them on here. Does anyone know how to get them in a format the site will accept?

https://workspace.google.com/intl/en-US/products/drive/

[cordes]

OK, let's try this. Beyond all logic and reason, I'm still having the same cutout problem with MS3pro Mini setup in the Shelby Lancer that I had in the car with the Logic Module. I guess this car won't allow me to take the loss and move on.

Regardless, here is a log that I made. I have no idea how to read the darn things with the exception of opening it up in Megalog Viewer HD and simply seeing the patterns. I understand that one is crank, and one is cam. I can also see where it's losing sync. That definitely coincides with the miss, as I saw the lost sync counter going up 1 each time the miss occurred.

Any feedback would be appreciated. I'll probably update the thread I originally started for this to amuse those who were following along.

Here's the link to the log I created.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YX1...ew?usp=sharing

ETA: This is probably a better datalog. I used the datalog tab to start this one, so I'm assuming it captured all the data.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16um...ew?usp=sharing

[cordes]

Alright, I changed how the hall sensors for the crank and cam are wired in. I tied into the 12v switched power feed for the injectors after doing some testing and I'm now 110 miles into a trouble free stint. Hopefully it continues.

My biggest issue right now is the lack of an IAC. I ordered up a two wire unit from a late 90s Volkswagen and I hope to install it this upcoming weekend. How did you guys plumb yours in? Just run a line from the intake to the valve and then to the charge pipe? I'm not sure how well this thing will hold up to boost, but it won't see a ton of it either so, I'm just not sure what the best way to go would be.