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Thread: No no build Tuning question?

  1. #1
    Mitsu booster
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    No no build Tuning question?

    Due to "reasons" dropped a 782 head T1 intake Garret combo on a stock 2.2 88 Tbi shortblock.


    Going to run 86 T1 electronics (might use a glhs lm)

    I know compression will be too high but it's just a fast way to set it up and get it running. In leu of letting it sit in pieces for months like most projects that get out of hand.

    What timing should I run?
    Is 5-6 psi safe?
    Anyone ever do this before?

  2. #2
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Vigo has done this before in a minivan. tuning will probably be needed to keep this alive. that and good gas.

    if running a stock ECU, you may need to back down the base timing from 12deg to something lower if it knocks.

    i suggest making something like this: https://uprev.com/documentation/Knoc...n%20Device.pdf or this: https://www.k20a.org/threads/how-to-...e-knock.27258/ to listen to knock to see if you have any.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  3. #3
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    Vigo has done this before in a minivan. tuning will probably be needed to keep this alive. that and good gas.

    if running a stock ECU, you may need to back down the base timing from 12deg to something lower if it knocks.

    i suggest making something like this: https://uprev.com/documentation/Knoc...n%20Device.pdf or this: https://www.k20a.org/threads/how-to-...e-knock.27258/ to listen to knock to see if you have any.

    Brian
    I got it running set it to 8゚ timing for now. I'm going to look into the knock sense reading.


    If anyone cares it looks like a 86 LM PM set up will actually work on a 88 K car just plug it into the bullhead and it starts right up no codes with every sensor connected. Most plug and play setup I've seen yet.

    https://youtu.be/UHkMxjHh9iw
    Last edited by reliantkcar; 11-20-2022 at 08:37 PM.

  4. #4
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    86 electronics from what vehicle?

    87 daytona/4 door lebaron (and probably 85-87) definitely have a aries/reliant compatible bulkhead connector. 89 and older minivan harnesses work too but they need 2 pins moved in the connector for windshield wiper stuff.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  5. #5
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    86 electronics from what vehicle?

    87 daytona/4 door lebaron (and probably 85-87) definitely have a aries/reliant compatible bulkhead connector. 89 and older minivan harnesses work too but they need 2 pins moved in the connector for windshield wiper stuff.

    Brian
    86 Lebaron Convertible T1 was the donor harness


    This car is a
    88 Reliant 2.2 Tbi

    I have the pm where the smec was and the lm by the ac crap. Check the pic and video.

    Everything works even the lights horn and wipers with extra plugs for 2nd set of headlights K cars don't have and the extra stuff from the lebaron.

    Most plug and play setup I've ever done. Just plugged it in hooked up every sensor and it fired right up still using the Tbi pump somehow. (Have the pump from the 86 Lebaron T1 and a 255 might use)

    Still have to wire up the tps right now the log one is plugged in wont bolt up to the newer manifold. And the IAT is just laying on the manifold likewise the log IAC but I'll just manually adjust the Tb for now leave it underhood so no codes.

    Biggest issue is the hole for the LM to go through is not there so might make a box to protect it under the hood.

    I have a 92 Daytona Sbec T1 harness,89 ShelbyZ 2.2 T2 harness, and a junkyard cut the smec plug off a 88 Shelby Z Harness all have different bulkhead plugs. Going to try to graft one of those into the Tbi smec harness I removed.

    I tried to find a 88 Dodge 600,NewYorker,Caravelle,Town and country TURBO harness but no go so had to go back in time with the 86 setup. Bulkhead pinouts were same and this is the first I've heard of a 86 harness working on a 88-89 Smec car no cutting anything.

  6. #6
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    I wouldnt keep the LM in the engine bay. the boards arent really waterproofed and the connectors definitely arent. I have an 88 reliant as well (have had 2 of them... 1 3.0L swapped and my current turbo one) and for the turbo car, I took a hole saw and cut the hole in the firewall, deburred it, and brushed some paint on the bare metal and stuffed the connectors through the hole. i believe there might have been a dimple in the correct place to center the drill bit from the hole saw.

    the easiest upgrade for an 86 car is to move the pins and add the wires for the 87 ecu as the 87 ecu is much more tunable. I ran that setup for a long time. a few years ago i, wire by wire, cut the LM and PM wires off and soldered them to the SMEC connectors for the added features of the custom SMEC software. I have the SMEC logic board in the kick panel and the Power board in the engine bay. works mint.

    you can also add a handful of wires to the TBI smec harness and cut off the 60 way keys so it fits in the turbo ecu (i think you have to cut them but im not 100%) to make a 88 turbo k harness.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  7. #7
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    I wouldnt keep the LM in the engine bay. the boards arent really waterproofed and the connectors definitely arent. I have an 88 reliant as well (have had 2 of them... 1 3.0L swapped and my current turbo one) and for the turbo car, I took a hole saw and cut the hole in the firewall, deburred it, and brushed some paint on the bare metal and stuffed the connectors through the hole. i believe there might have been a dimple in the correct place to center the drill bit from the hole saw.

    the easiest upgrade for an 86 car is to move the pins and add the wires for the 87 ecu as the 87 ecu is much more tunable. I ran that setup for a long time. a few years ago i, wire by wire, cut the LM and PM wires off and soldered them to the SMEC connectors for the added features of the custom SMEC software. I have the SMEC logic board in the kick panel and the Power board in the engine bay. works mint.

    you can also add a handful of wires to the TBI smec harness and cut off the 60 way keys so it fits in the turbo ecu (i think you have to cut them but im not 100%) to make a 88 turbo k harness.

    Brian
    Last year I scoured craigslist and the local junkyards for any TD stuff remaining.

    Should I go 87 Lm,SMEC or SBEC using the Tbi harness bulkhead plug?

    I have a complete 89 T2 harness,92 2.5 T1 Sbec harness and a 88 T2 harness complete besides Smec plug was cutoff.

    I have a pile of LM's,Smecs,and a few Sbec's

    I know nothing about tuning though.

  8. #8
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    These days I would gowith a SMEC.

  9. #9
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    anything smec for sure. if you dont have a full TBI harness to convert to a turbo harness, splice the TBI bulkhead fitting onto one of the other SMEC harnesses. youll need the bulkhead wiring diagram for the reliant and the donor vehicle that provided the harness.

    the tuning isnt that hard. there is a decent amount of documentation on here on the subject. the rest of the details I can fill in.

    most of the details are in this video I made not too long ago. https://youtu.be/45UQaphMpdE

    Brian
    Last edited by Aries_Turbo; 11-26-2022 at 11:10 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #10
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    anything smec for sure. if you dont have a full TBI harness to convert to a turbo harness, splice the TBI bulkhead fitting onto one of the other SMEC harnesses. youll need the bulkhead wiring diagram for the reliant and the donor vehicle that provided the harness.

    the tuning isnt that hard. there is a decent amount of documentation on here on the subject. the rest of the details I can fill in.

    most of the details are in this video I made not too long ago. https://youtu.be/45UQaphMpdE

    Brian
    I was thinking SBEC would be better for the sequential injection but if the SMEC is better for tuning I'll splice it into the TBI harness over the winter.

    Once I clean up this mess (no hole for LM plug,4 wire O2,IAC,IAT,Tps etc) I can get it driving.
    https://youtu.be/GZiRr7qOTS0

    Future plans are 2.5 shortblock (already assembled) Ported 782 head (gonna try myself) 2 piece Ported for a 52mm Tb a ebay T3/T4 with a "built" A413 2.60 or 2.78 FD A404 steels extra clutches (gotta figure that one out)

    So most likely stock programming won't work too good so gonna have to setup a way to tune it.

    Maybe something like this 😆
    https://youtu.be/lTRftZx2tAo

  11. #11
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor motomick76's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    anything smec for sure. if you dont have a full TBI harness to convert to a turbo harness, splice the TBI bulkhead fitting onto one of the other SMEC harnesses. youll need the bulkhead wiring diagram for the reliant and the donor vehicle that provided the harness.

    the tuning isnt that hard. there is a decent amount of documentation on here on the subject. the rest of the details I can fill in.

    most of the details are in this video I made not too long ago. https://youtu.be/45UQaphMpdE

    Brian
    Thanks for making a good video on the process of making tuning adjustments, seems pretty simple.

    I have a few questions, and have scoured this forum, and info seems to be a bit scattered.

    I have two 2.5T's, SBEC 2 (transplanting 2.5T and harness into my Rampage) and SMEC (89 T Van).

    How do I get both of my controllers to the stage to do this?

    What upgrades to the computer (SB/SMEC) are needed / who can do this?

    What program runs on the (SB/SMEC) to 'flash the chip'?

    What program runs on the PC?

    What is the interface between the PC and SB/SMEC?

    For the van I plan to just upgrade to a T2 Garrett, add a WTA Intercooler, and run 14-15 psi, control boost by adding air temp sensor like T2's Just make it a quick grocery getter.

    For the Rampage, pretty much same setup, but with FMIC, and a 523 5 speed.

    Thanks!
    1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 Turbo - "Reba"
    1989 Plymouth Voyager 2.5 Turbo - "Vanna"


  12. #12
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by reliantkcar View Post
    I was thinking SBEC would be better for the sequential injection but if the SMEC is better for tuning I'll splice it into the TBI harness over the winter.

    Once I clean up this mess (no hole for LM plug,4 wire O2,IAC,IAT,Tps etc) I can get it driving.
    https://youtu.be/GZiRr7qOTS0

    Future plans are 2.5 shortblock (already assembled) Ported 782 head (gonna try myself) 2 piece Ported for a 52mm Tb a ebay T3/T4 with a "built" A413 2.60 or 2.78 FD A404 steels extra clutches (gotta figure that one out)

    So most likely stock programming won't work too good so gonna have to setup a way to tune it.

    Maybe something like this 😆
    https://youtu.be/lTRftZx2tAo
    SMEC has the most support for tuning and features.

    HEHE. danger to manifold.....

    Quote Originally Posted by motomick76 View Post
    Thanks for making a good video on the process of making tuning adjustments, seems pretty simple.

    I have a few questions, and have scoured this forum, and info seems to be a bit scattered.

    I have two 2.5T's, SBEC 2 (transplanting 2.5T and harness into my Rampage) and SMEC (89 T Van).

    How do I get both of my controllers to the stage to do this?

    What upgrades to the computer (SB/SMEC) are needed / who can do this?

    What program runs on the (SB/SMEC) to 'flash the chip'?

    What program runs on the PC?

    What is the interface between the PC and SB/SMEC?

    For the van I plan to just upgrade to a T2 Garrett, add a WTA Intercooler, and run 14-15 psi, control boost by adding air temp sensor like T2's Just make it a quick grocery getter.

    For the Rampage, pretty much same setup, but with FMIC, and a 523 5 speed.

    Thanks!
    You have to socket the controllers to be able to add a flashable setup, use an ostrich (if you can find one with moates going out of business) or burn a chip with a custom tune.

    not sure who is offering socketing services right now. the mpscilink/MPFlash guys?

    you use MPTune to modify the program and then normally i would say, connect a moates burn 2 chip burner with a 27sf512 chip (if you can get one) and mptune will automatically see the burner and burn the chip. you can also get a mpflash setup if they are available to convert the ecu to flashable.

    you use a FTDI TTL-232r-5v cable (with the TX and RX logic levels inverted) and a little custom board to connect to the factory scanner connector and the run mpscan on the laptop to log.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor motomick76's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Brian - Thanks for clearing things up.

    I have read on Moates that the chips needed are close to N/A, and the ones that we see for sale will not work as we need them to.

    Have spoken with Whelming, there is a wait list, so it would be a while to get a socketed SB/SMEC done.

    Basically this is something that is going to be difficult to get completed as chip availability / resources dwindling, and low interest in community (low demand).

    Maybe be better to go old skool 5th injector, IDK, do not have the time to put together two Microsquirt systems. Just want more of plug n play.
    Last edited by motomick76; 12-13-2022 at 08:21 PM.
    1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 Turbo - "Reba"
    1989 Plymouth Voyager 2.5 Turbo - "Vanna"


  14. #14
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    SMEC has the most support for tuning and features.

    HEHE. danger to manifold.....



    You have to socket the controllers to be able to add a flashable setup, use an ostrich (if you can find one with moates going out of business) or burn a chip with a custom tune.

    not sure who is offering socketing services right now. the mpscilink/MPFlash guys?

    you use MPTune to modify the program and then normally i would say, connect a moates burn 2 chip burner with a 27sf512 chip (if you can get one) and mptune will automatically see the burner and burn the chip. you can also get a mpflash setup if they are available to convert the ecu to flashable.

    you use a FTDI TTL-232r-5v cable (with the TX and RX logic levels inverted) and a little custom board to connect to the factory scanner connector and the run mpscan on the laptop to log.

    Brian
    Ever heard of this guy?

    https://m.facebook.com/MeyerTuned/

    https://form.123formbuilder.com/5270034/form

    Say him mentioned on a FB group.

  15. #15
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor motomick76's Avatar
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    Re: No no build Tuning question?

    Quote Originally Posted by reliantkcar View Post
    Ever heard of this guy?

    https://m.facebook.com/MeyerTuned/

    https://form.123formbuilder.com/5270034/form

    Say him mentioned on a FB group.
    Thanks for sharing this.

    Heard of him before, but did not have contact info, I do not have FB, but did sent him an email. I have a SM and SBEC want upgraded.

    meyertuned@gmail.com

    On FB he is doing cap replacement too. Will inform what I find out.
    1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 Turbo - "Reba"
    1989 Plymouth Voyager 2.5 Turbo - "Vanna"


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