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Thread: Excessive oil consumption

  1. #1
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Excessive oil consumption

    My 2.5 uses a quart of oil pretty quickly. I have suspected for awhile that hot oil is outgassing from the valve cover baffle. I think it is then sucked into the intake through the PCV into the intake. Is there a fix for this?
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    How many miles are you getting before you need to add a quart. You should lose very little through the pcv setup if everything is right.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    My 2.2 was approx approx 1 L per month at 250 miles/week. This was after 12 years sitting in the garage. I noticed a video of project farm where he used seafoam in the oil and gas to solve the problem.
    It worked fantastic for me down to a cup a month or so. Significantly reduced blowby.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agAWXnT4-EQ
    Your oil consumption may vary
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  4. #4
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    20 or 30 miles of performance e tun I ng and testing. This thing doesn't smoke and doesn't leave a trail of smoke upon decel or accel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Miles, what do you think the seafoam does, maybe free up sticky rings?
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  5. #5
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Cordes, I should add that my pcv goes directly from the intake to the valve cover. I'm using the Toyota valve which holds 20+ psi. I also vented the valve cover cap. Was this wrong. I did that because I thought it might be bad to be pulling a vacuum on the crankcase at part throttle. Is this wrong.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  6. #6
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    firstly.. crankcase operating in vacuum is a very very good thing.. it promotes ring sealing to both the cylinder wall and the lands of the piston

    (this might be the reason our stock crankcase vent in not on the engine itself but in the routing to the aircleaner box ..that and the requirement for an enclosed vent as per emissions))

    that's why moroso sells crankcase vacuum pumps for lots of $$

    on a big bad race engine those pumps can provide a 40 hp upgrade through better ring sealing

    so , lose your vented oil cap first and replace the vent set up in the pcv rigging to the air filter
    at the very least go back to the factory set up .. faulty as it may seem it's the best solution for the way the car is designed .. without any upward travel to the vent like an old v8 with the vent filter up above the carb in the airfilter

    our air boxes fill with oil because of the down hill run to the airbox from the valve cover..the oil cannot "fall back"

    although,.. I think I have a much better idea for a pcv mod

    mopar performance sell/sold a crankcase evacuation set up that looked like two v8 dodge crankcase filters..the ones that used to go on the v8 valve covers..and a couple of tubes that went on the exhaust right behind the header collector

    the exhaust stream would draw the vapors out of the crankcasse

    thinking along those lines I found the Cobra mustangs of the late 90's and early 2000's used a nice compact little electric crankcase pump

    I found one on e bay for 75 bucks so you might be able to do it on a budget
    (parts from ford ain't gonna be cheap if available )

    according to the article I read about adding this pump it has good vacuum..you need to hold onto your oil cap tightly as you install / remove it as it'll get sucked right outta your fingers if your not gripping it tightly from a couple of inches above the valvecover

    so that means we can achieve a vacuum if we seal the crankcase..

    add the electric pump where the nipple is on the valvecover now ,and if you have a non common block you could add another at the fuel pump block off plate ..if you make a baffle deal for the inside to avoid vacuuming up oil
    route past a catch can and add a tube to the exhaust just behind the catalytic converter where things are nice and hot .. connect the outlet line there..

    you can seal the dipstick tube with a couple of coil wire end boots .. one small enough to fit in the other .. a little scrapyard scrounging and you'll find what you need
    (coil tower boot is often larger than the end at the distributer

    put the larger boot on the top of the dipstick tube .. big end up and cut the neck off the smaller boot ..add that to the dipstick , again big side up ..cut part facing down .. push that small boot all the way up to the round part under the handle and reinsert the stick in the tube
    (this also prevents dipstick blow out if that's currently an issue..which might also indicate weak piston rings)

    it helps if the large boot is more rubber-ie and the small one more vinyl-ie in nature

    if you have a steel oil cap a little fiddling and you should be able to tighten the seal .. I've added a second gasket to a few

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Dr. J, that is outstanding advice. I was always unsure of what I did because of my memory of my original air box. I will be working on changing the routing. It will be interesting as the Chargers engine compartment is plump full. Thank you very much for your help.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  8. #8
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    One quart in 20-30 miles is a ton. I would think you would notice where all of it goes. Is there a huge puddle at the inlet to the turbo?

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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    I presume you're running an intercooler
    that's the spot the oil from the pvc usually accumulates ..bottom tank

    if you're missing a quart a catch pan below the hose might be wise before you start loosening the clamp

  10. #10
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Jeff,
    If you're losing that much oil I would suspect maybe the compressor carbon seal could be bad. That can be checked by taking off compressor housing and looking for oil flinging radially outward (like a spin-o-painting, remember those?). You could also have a bad turbine seal on hot side of turbo. Like Brian says, 20-30 miles is lot!
    Todd

  11. #11
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    if it were leaking from the hot side it should produce traffic stopping clouds of smoke

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Lol, I remember spin-o-painting, that was a while back. I would walk back my estimate of oil usage a bit to say a half quart over 40 to 60 miles. Which is still significant, but Its been awhile since I drove any long distance to look at consumption over a tank full. The cost of premium fuel being a major factor holding that back. I just changed oil and I've got a run coming up for a cruise which should give me a better idea of consumption. Regardless, turbo inspection would require engine removal, a task im not thrilled to initiate. So, for the present I will find a way to address Dr. J's suggestion concerning the oil drain problem and see what effect it has in conjunction with long distance travel. I dont have a sense that something is wrong with my turbo,because early in the year I had things apart and I could detect no end play and very little side play at the compressor wheel. Regardless, I very much appreciate you guys input and after this run coming up in October I will update. Thank you all!
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  13. #13
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    was the oil filter full when you checked the oil level ?

    if it was new or had sat for some time without running ..maybe you never lost anything (?)

  14. #14
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Yup, it was full. On the most recent oil change I went to extra lengths to see what the stick looked like at three quarts, four quarts and five quarts after starting the engine. This is the original stick from my 2.5. After run, five quarts are right at the squiggly bent in the stock.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    5 quarts ..I'm presuming you've removed the balance shafts

    I had cam seal issues with mine when I went from 2.2 to 2.5 without knowing to only put 4 liters in the 2.5 ..with shafts

    kept blowing out the front cam seal

  16. #16
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Earlier this year I changed over the aircleaner to turbo compressor tubing. The design I had there was K and N cone shaped filter to a pleated large diameter plastic tube that I think was from some other Chrysler product and installed that onto the turbo nozzle. I put a hole in the tube, attached a nipple to it and ran a section of smaller diameter heater hose to a tee. This tee was attached to the valve cover nipple and also had the pcv attached to the tee which was connected to a tee on the intake. That tee also provided vacuum to the brake booster. In my opinion this emulated the factory system. Here's the reason I changed to a different system. Oil was being deposited on the inside of the pleated hose, from the hose nipple down to the turbo intake. This was coming from the valve cover not the turbo. I thought there was to much suction in the turbo pulling oil out of the valve cover and this is why I suspected hot oil was outgassing into the turbo. I read that it wasn't good to have that oil building up in turbo hosing and intercooler so I changed it out. Yet...it's essentially what Chrysler did. So now what do you think?
    I woke up this morning realizing that my setup wasn't exactly the same. It needs to have a catch can that has access to filtered air.
    Last edited by jeff1234; 09-16-2022 at 06:49 AM.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  17. #17
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    do a compression and a leakdown test.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  18. #18
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    I've done that in the past and while I didn't do leakdown the compression was125 psi across the board. My plug color is light tan on every cyclinder. I think if I were burning oil on one or more cylinders it would show up there. I need to follow up on the catch can idea above to see the results of that before anything else simply because that may change the whole focus.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  19. #19
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    You are correct and plugged the feed hole.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  20. #20
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive oil consumption

    Yes, and plugged the feed hole.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

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