1985 New Yorker No spark

[jamesmonty]

I just picked up a 1985 Chrysler New Yorker T1 Auto. Currently getting no spark from the coil. I ran thru the steps in the troubleshooting guide and at first was thinking it was a bad HEP. After trying a few known good HEP's I turned to the power module. The car had a spare PM in it so I cleaned up the connectors and put it in. My son was in the car and said the EVA said something like "engine power module is now functioning properly", or something like that. Now the HEP test fine (12v at the - side of the coil when cranking). I put the coil from my running GLH in it to rule out a bad coil. I also threw in the old LM from my Omni with no change. So I am thinking it has to be a wiring issue somewhere.

So all you turbo-mopar gurus, where should I start to look first?


Troubleshooting steps I took -

1)Verify no spark by removing the coil wire from the distributor cap and hold 1/4" from a good ground. **no spark

2)Verify Distributor is turning, if distributor is not turning repair timing belt issue. **all good, everything is turning

3)Check ASD Relay circuit. Locate the underhood diagnostic connector With the key on/engine off ground the DB/YL(dark blue/yellow) wire.
This will actuate the ASD relay. (A Code 42 will be set in memory) **did not check for codes
Power (battery voltage) should be present at the + coil, DG/BK **there is power there
(dark green/black) wire at the injector(s) and at the fuel pump.
You should hear the fuel pump running. **pretty sure the fuel pump is shot, so I didn't worry about that. I can hear the ASD relay click.
Is power present?

4)Check HEP (hall effect pickup) circuit.
Remove the ground wire from the diagnostic connector.
Using a 12 volt test lamp connected to + coil and ground crank the engine. **after changing the PM I get power to the + side now

5)Check coil control circuit
Using a 12 volt test lamp connected to - coil and ground crank the engine.
The test lamp should flash on/off repeatedly.
If the lamp flashed on/off but no spark...replace the ignition coil.
If the lamp did not light...replace the ignition coil
If the test lamp illuminated but did not flash...repair the coil control circuit. **need to get a test lamp, but I am reading 12v with my test meter. I have no clue what the coil control circuit is or how to fix it

[cordes]

You've go to check for codes. If you reset the computer, you'll get a code 11 if it doesn't see hep signal. There are two different codes, 14 and 54? For the different HEP circuits. That is super helpful in situations like this. Do you have a spare LM? They've been dropping like flies around here...

[jamesmonty]

I do have the stock Lm out of my Omni. I plugged that in to try it today with no results. Funny thing is it has the same exact part number as the one in it. Guess it should since they are both from a 85 T1 car.

I will run codes on it tomorrow and see what it pulls up.

[4 l-bodies]

I do have the stock Lm out of my Omni. I plugged that in to try it today with no results. Funny thing is it has the same exact part number as the one in it. Guess it should since they are both from a 85 T1 car.

I will run codes on it tomorrow and see what it pulls up.

The LM should be different part # for manual and auto tranny. My guess is your GLHT has an auto tranny LM. That wouldn't prevent the car from having the issue you're having though.

[jeff1234]

Check for continuity across the coil with the + and - leads disconnected? Maybe the coil itself has failed internally.

[jamesmonty]

I took the one out of my running Omni and still had the same issue. It's been raining all weekend so I haven't been able to do much with it. I did try the PM out of my Omni, still nothing. I also tried the two PM that came with the New Yorker in my Omni. Both worked, but both would not charge. Same issue I had years ago when I got the Omni running.

Something is not telling the coil to fire. hopefully it is dry tomorrow and I can start chasing the wiring for the ignition to the PM and from the PM to the coil. If I am reading the diagrams right it's the J2, J5 and Z1 I should be checking.

[jeff1234]

J5, the blck yellow wire and the connector where it attaches to the power module would be the first thing I would check to verify continuity from the coil to that point. You have power at the coil so ground is where the problem is going. You've changed the pm with no change in the problem, to me this points at the connective wiring, high resistance at the plug pins or broken wire. The other possibility that I can imagine is body grounds that are no longer making the best connections. Measure resistance between a body groud and the negative post on the coil it should be nearly zero ohms, you may need to have the ignition on. Also check the two engine grounds. Use contact cleaner on your plug pins. Best of luck.

[jamesmonty]

Poking around on this thing again today. Running thru the trouble shooting guide again and everything passes until checking for a flashing light on the - coil terminal while cranking. Guide tells me to check the "coil control circuit". Took a bit to find out what that was but to check it it said to check for continuity between the - coil wire (BK/YL) to the #6 pin on the red LM connector. That check out. Then to check each wire for continuity to ground, it should not show continuity to ground on either. Both of mine do. So I guess I have a short to ground in this circuit? Any idea on where to start checking this? Or am I stuck with pulling the whole wiring harness out and going over it bit by bit?

edit - I tried checking codes with the on/off/on/off/on and nothing happens? Am i doing it wrong or something?

[jeff1234]

The blk/yl comes from the PM pin #1on the ten pin plug. Unplug the plug and disconnect the blk/yl wire at the coil. Now measure for continuity to ground. If it exists that wire is shorted. If not, the wire is good because it goes straight to the coil. The positive side of the coil, dg/blk is a single wire that is connected to a splice which has all four injector leads. Unplug all of the injector plugs and measure for continuity to ground with the dg/blk wire removed from the coil between that wire and ground. If there is no continuity that wire is good. I believe the power module provides ground to the coil to ground the injectors. Try these tests.

[jeff1234]

If the power loss lamp doesn't flash at all it could be a bad bulb. Does it light otherwise? If you have disconnected the battery it should at least flash 1-2.

[jamesmonty]

I didn't mention it, but I did test the wire at the PM. From the coil to pin #1 has continuity to each other. When I tested the wire to ground with the PM unplugged, there was no continuity to ground. If it doesn't rain tomorrow I will check the fuel injectors.

edit - checked the + coil wire to the fuel injectors. Wire has continuity, no continuity to ground with the PM unplugged. With it plugged in it has continuity to ground.


The "test light" i am using is a continuity/voltage tester. It works fine with all the other test. I have a volt meter too, but to be honest I only really know how to test voltage with it.

the tester - https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...er/1080843_0_0

[jeff1234]

Check out...How to use a multimeter or voltmeter: Basics you need to know. About 8 minute video that will get you up to speed on this very useful tool.

[Dr. Johny Dodge]

I'm pretty sure your omni LM ain't gonna work in a K car

L body vs g body was unique to body line and to add regardless an 85 lm would not work in an 86-7 ..not without changing distributors

my first question .. is the distributor actually turning.. if not you need a timing belt

[jamesmonty]

Problem resolved!!! TL/DR - There was a bad wire splice, fixed it now it runs.

Now for a more of an explanation. So I borrowed a LM from Warren Hall from his New Yorker thinking it was a bad LM. Put it in and still had no spark. I started to trace the power leads to the LM (no idea why I didn't do this before). So the J2 12v from the ignition were good. Then I tested N6 (8v from PM) and I was only reading 4.0 volts. Weird, so I got out my service manual and found the circuit so i could trace it. The N6 runs from the PM (12 pin connector, Orange wire) to the LM but there is a splice where it goes to both grey and black HEP connector. I was getting 8V at the HEP, not at the LM. So I tested for continuity, HEP to PM was good and nothing to the PM or HEP to the LM. So back to the book to look up where the splice was. Peeled back the crusty tape and found a orange wire and quickly traced it back to a splice. The splice came apart in my hands. Stripped back to good wire and made a new splice. now I have continuity from the PM and HEp to the LM. And guess what? Now there is spark! Didn't have any brake cleaner but the contact cleaner said HIGHLY flammable. It wouldn't run on it, but it was firing. Hooked up a quick fender gas tank and it started right up. Only ran it for a few minutes because there is still quite a bit of leaves and crap to clean out of the engine bay. Thanks for all the input, hopefully this thread will help someone out one day.

[cordes]

Thanks for the update. Maybe I'll check that splice in my lancer.

[csxtra]

SO glad you found the issue James! Hope to see two NYers @ Turbopalooza in November!

[jamesmonty]

Got it running on it's refurbished gas tank today. Runs so good, just got to fix a few more issues before taking it on a drive. Then we find out what else is wrong with it. Guess it's time to start a project log on it.