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Thread: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

  1. #21
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    I buy from Digikey or Mouser, but you can use the radial if you wish, just solder an extra wire and use a bit of RTV to keep the cap in place
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  2. #22
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    OK, today I tried a different ignition switch, and the last known good PM I had lying around. I also converted the hep to a Deutsch connector. All with no discernable difference.

    I do get a code 22 on occasion when the car is acting up, but rarely. I will change out the coolant temp sensor next. After that I think it is time for new terminals at the lm. Are they still available?

    One last thing. It will be free to move the ground at the fuel rail, so I'll try that too. Maybe it's not quite as good on top of the foot for the aftermarket rail, even though it ohms out fine.

  3. #23
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    I'm dealing with a similar issue right now. My care finally just didn't start and I found that wiggling the connector at the PM changed how the car ran and if it started. Turns out, there was a lot of corrosion growing in those connectors at the PM. The wiring on these cars sucked when new, sounds like you've looked at those connectors already.

  4. #24
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by RattFink View Post
    I'm dealing with a similar issue right now. My care finally just didn't start and I found that wiggling the connector at the PM changed how the car ran and if it started. Turns out, there was a lot of corrosion growing in those connectors at the PM. The wiring on these cars sucked when new, sounds like you've looked at those connectors already.
    I really wish it was in that connector, but after all the cleaning and the three different pms, im fairly sure that isn't the problem. I'm hoping that moving my fuel rail ground buys me enough for it to stop the problem, but I'm grasping at straws now to say the least.

  5. #25
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Well, I was hopeful that I got lucky. The bolt holding down the ground at the fuel rail was ever so slightly loose, and the ground was on top of the bracket for the fuel rail rather than under it. After reinstalling the the ground under the bracket it didn't make a difference, but I can eliminate that remote possibility.

    Up next, I'll most likely pull each pin from the lm connectors, inspect and bend them. I haven't ordered up the caps yet.

  6. #26
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    If this car wants to get crazy, we'll get crazy.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #27
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    I pulled the lm connectors under the hood and inspected the splices up to the grommet and the sensor signal ground splice right after. They all looked great. The pins in the connectors look excellent also.

    I think tomorrow I will inspect the splice for the 8v supply for the hep which is located at the driver's strut tower area.

    I'm running out of obvious things to check. Pretty soon I'll need to put another wiring harness in the car for testing purposes.

    For further information, the computer, power module, and map sensor in the car worked great in joys daytona this past Wednesday. I put a little over 25 miles on it with no issues whatsoever.

    Eta: the splice for 8v looks pristine. I'm hesitant to pull the alternator sub harness which I put together. Not only because it will be a pain to take apart, but also because it will be expensive to put back together, and I thought it looked decent when I did it initially.

    I'm very tempted to get a 120 amp nippondenso unit on there to see if this later unit simply puts out too much ac current for the old stuff to handle. Everything I look at is in great shape in general, let alone for the typical tm stuffing used to seeing.
    Last edited by cordes; 09-24-2022 at 07:09 PM.

  8. #28
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    do you have anything that can log the 12v source, 5v source and 8v source?

    I hate to say it (as i thought it might be a bit much for some of the smaller gauge wiring and connectors) but it may be time to try simons headlight loading of various circuits (with the modules disconnected) to see if the wiring and connections are intact.

    I like those breakout boards. pretty cool for connecting a scope.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  9. #29
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    I would have to tool up for any real electrical diagnostics, but I was looking at 4 channel oscilloscopes yesterday. I'm sure my father has one that I could use though.

    Interestingly enough, I just swapped back to factory style wiring for the alternator control and put a corporate alt in the car which I think may have come off of the car initially. The voltage is rock steady in a way that I couldn't achieve with the other two alternators of the later style. I only rant for a few moments, but all was quiet on the western front.

    ETA: It took a bit, but the problem is still there. The car definitely ran much more smoothly than it did before I changed the alternator. I'm still at a loss on this one.
    Last edited by cordes; 09-25-2022 at 04:17 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Eta ii: I changed the coolant temp sensor since it's the only code the car ever throws when it is acting up. I also made a sub harness section for just the hep. It gave me the chance to use the fancy ratcheting open barrel splice tool I bought recently. It's expensive, but well worth it if you're going to be doing a lot of work. With the tefzel wire and dr25 heat shrink I hope this is the last time it ever needs to be done.

  11. #31
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    "I only rant for a few moments, but all was quiet on the western front."

    LOL

    best chuckle I've had since I got my computer back online

  12. #32
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    "I only rant for a few moments, but all was quiet on the western front."

    LOL

    best chuckle I've had since I got my computer back online
    Glad it gave you a laugh. I can't wait to finally figure out what the problem with this thing is.

  13. #33
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    I spent several hours making an alternator subharness with all new wire and terminals with the exception of the fan and ac compressor wires. That clearly wasn't the problem as it is cutting out worse now than it was before. I could actually hear a relay, which I'm assuming was the asd relay when it was dying. I'm not sure what that means.

    I'm going to more aggressively clean the PM and lm connectors. It is getting to the point that I need to try the spare harness I bought. At this Pont the only difference there should be is the bulkhead connector, lm and PM connectors. I find it hard to believe the problem isn't in one of those areas since most everything else has been thoroughly cleaned and inspected.

    This thing is driving me crazy like no car ever has. I guess that just means it will be that much more rewarding when I'm done.

  14. #34
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    No difference after Cleaning the PM connectors and changing out the distributor body. That was one of the last ignition related parts I haven't changed out yet.

  15. #35
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Cleaned the majority of the terminals on the lm. It made no difference, which I expected on account of th3 fact that both connectors looked great. Up next I think I will replace the neutral colored connector by the battery. The n5 ground goes through there and feeds the connector for the alt section of the subharness. It's getting ridiculous at this point, but that's the only thing left to do I can even think of. The PM, lm, and map sensor run joys daytona with no problems at all.

  16. #36
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    That connector looked good too. Should I just swap the harness, or should I buy a tool to further test this. I already have a lot of money into fixing this harness, so why not throw good money after bad?

    ETA: new harness is rougher than the on in the car in most ways. It's also a 5 speed harness. I have enough time and effort into this harness to just try and fix it. I'm going to start another thread about oscilloscopes, as I'm thinking that would be my best bet here.
    Last edited by cordes; 10-02-2022 at 06:52 PM.

  17. #37
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    did you try jumping 12 volts directly to the + terminal of the coil after the car starts and then go driving around to see if it cuts out?

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  18. #38
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Not yet. That's a good idea though. It's easy enough to try, so I'll give it a go tomorrow. My level of frustration is getting very high, and I'm thankful for the patience which comes with age. A few simple tests which don't break my heart would be ideal to calm down some.

  19. #39
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Brian, you are handling my worst nightmare like a trooper...
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  20. #40
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    Re: Difficult Ignition Cutout Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Brian, you are handling my worst nightmare like a trooper...
    Thanks. Had a bad headache th8s afternoon, so I didn't get a chance to test the jumper wire. I have a lead on a digital scope, so that might happen sooner than later.

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