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Thread: L body rear bar question

  1. #1
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    L body rear bar question

    Iíve got a 1 inch aftermarket anti sway bar for a 87 Charger Lucky Dog / lemons car. Car has a push in fast sweeping corners. It can be managed, but Iím looking to be able to get through the fast corners better. My question is for those of you that have actually bolted on a rear aftermarket bar, How did it effect the rear end? Did it make the car really loose? Or did it take serious lift to get oversteer? Reason I ask is there will be multiple drivers in the car over the course of a race weekend
    Also, what front bar are you running?
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    How much camber do you have at each corner? Any additional caster? What are your toe settings? You can probably dial most of it out changing those. Is it a Shelby charger with the factory welded on bar? Adding end links to the factory front bar and s-body(minivan) a-arms along with poly bushings will help if you haven't already.

    I had a 1 1/8" rear bar on my glht (longer wheelbase) and it'd lift the rear tire of the ground all the time. Manageable if you knew about it. But had to nail the brakes going into a corner once more than I wanted to and the rear came out. Drove down into the inside of the corner and back out onto the concrete. Another driver probably would of spun the car.

    Give me your alignment specs and I'll see if there's anything you can do before bolting on a bar.

  3. #3
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Thanks for your reply. Iíve recently bought this car and have not had it to the alignment shop yet. I have raced it before. The rear Iím going to assume is stock settings. The front end has the spindle swap with the big vented rotor upgrade and I know from past conversations that itís pretty much right around 0 camber as the shop was not able to get any real meaningful camber dialed in. Toe I would hope is close to zero or -.05
    Iíve got new tires coming -RS4s- once I get them mounted and check for clearance Iíll be sending it to the alignment shop. I also need to pb blaster the rear spindle bolts to make sure they come apart. Any idea why getting camber in the front is so difficult? Also what settings would you recommend?
    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    The spindles went designed for the l body strut. Some grinding might allow you to get more camber but camber plates might be necessary. They'd also help your roll center and camber curve as well.

    For settings on a track only car I'd start at -2.0 camber in the front and adjust based on tire wear or tire temp readings. Run .5 degrees less camber in the rear to whatever you run up front as it'll balance the car in the corners. I'd also have the toe in the front set to -.05 to -.1 just to get it to turn in. The rear I'd leave at zero toe. Obviously if adjust these if needed but should be a good baseline.

  5. #5
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Quote Originally Posted by Barraguy View Post
    Any idea why getting camber in the front is so difficult? Also what settings would you recommend?
    Thanks
    Yeah because the larger knuckles have reversed the camber adjustment from top strut location (L-body) to lower strut location (larger car)! There is some trimming that you can do to the inside of the knuckle to improve the camber. Most people end up slotting the lower knuckles bolt hole or slotting the struts themselves. You can also slot the upper strut mount holes inboard to gain some additional negative camber. Come to think of it, I've seen others slot the top hole too. It usually is a combo of all of these to get a lot of negative camber. Make sure your not using anything but l-body axles in there too. Some say Dynasty axles will work, but you end up bottoming them out (not a good thing) which also prevents negative camber. Dynasty axles are slightly longer than L-body, and what might work for drag cars requiring little if any negative camber, won't work for dialing up a lot of negative camber.
    I try not to slot the knuckle bolt holes, but sometimes you have to to get a lot of negative camber.
    For a off-road car I'd want at least -2 to -3į negative camber up front. I can get by running -1.5į on the street.
    Todd
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  6. #6
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    The spindles went designed for the l body strut. Some grinding might allow you to get more camber but camber plates might be necessary. They'd also help your roll center and camber curve as well.

    For settings on a track only car I'd start at -2.0 camber in the front and adjust based on tire wear or tire temp readings. Run .5 degrees less camber in the rear to whatever you run up front as it'll balance the car in the corners. I'd also have the toe in the front set to -.05 to -.1 just to get it to turn in. The rear I'd leave at zero toe. Obviously if adjust these if needed but should be a good baseline.
    Hey Jay you tree'd me on the light. Beat me by a minute. hehe

  7. #7
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    You really need to get the alignment checked to see where you're at. Rear alignment is done via shims, I have some for sale. Each shims corrects about 0.25 degree.


  8. #8
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Yeah because the larger knuckles have reversed the camber adjustment from top strut location (L-body) to lower strut location (larger car)! There is some trimming that you can do to the inside of the knuckle to improve the camber. Most people end up slotting the lower knuckles bolt hole or slotting the struts themselves. You can also slot the upper strut mount holes inboard to gain some additional negative camber. Come to think of it, I've seen others slot the top hole too. It usually is a combo of all of these to get a lot of negative camber. Make sure your not using anything but l-body axles in there too. Some say Dynasty axles will work, but you end up bottoming them out (not a good thing) which also prevents negative camber. Dynasty axles are slightly longer than L-body, and what might work for drag cars requiring little if any negative camber, won't work for dialing up a lot of negative camber.
    I try not to slot the knuckle bolt holes, but sometimes you have to to get a lot of negative camber.
    For a off-road car I'd want at least -2 to -3į negative camber up front. I can get by running -1.5į on the street.
    Todd
    Knuckles have been shaved already 👍

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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post

    For settings on a track only car I'd start at -2.0 camber in the front and adjust based on tire wear or tire temp readings. Run .5 degrees less camber in the rear to whatever you run up front as it'll balance the car in the corners. I'd also have the toe in the front set to -.05 to -.1 just to get it to turn in. The rear I'd leave at zero toe. Obviously if adjust these if needed but should be a good baseline.
    Thanks for the Numbers to shoot for. 👍

  10. #10
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    So how much should I slot the lower knuckle hole? 5mm? 10mm? Iíll pull it apart this weekend and drop the knuckles off at the machine shop Monday

  11. #11
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    what would the S-body A arms do for the handling?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    and s-body(minivan) a-arms along with poly bushings will help if you haven't already.

    I had a 1 1/8" rear bar on my glht (longer wheelbase) and it'd lift the rear tire of the ground all the time. Manageable if you knew about it. But had to nail the brakes going into a corner once more than I wanted to and the rear came out. Drove down into the inside of the corner and back out onto the concrete. Another driver probably would of spun the car.



    Give me your alignment specs and I'll see if there's anything you can do before bolting on a bar.

  12. #12
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    the car control arms are V shaped
    the van control arms are A shaped ..so to say in that the van arms have a steel strap welded across the two arms of the control arm to make it more rigid

  13. #13
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    This is what I did to my l-body control arms. Effectively boxed. You can do lots of work to the crossmember too, as the factory welds were less than ideal.
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  14. #14
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Good thread
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  15. #15
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    do I need to find original oem ones? I looked at rock auto and it didnít look like they had a strap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    the car control arms are V shaped
    the van control arms are A shaped ..so to say in that the van arms have a steel strap welded across the two arms of the control arm to make it more rigid

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Good catch, I've never seen the reinforcement on aftermarket arms either.

    Thanks
    Randy


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  17. #17
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Thanks for confirming what I thought I saw. Do you have a OEM arm that you could get me a picture of?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    Good catch, I've never seen the reinforcement on aftermarket arms either.

    Thanks
    Randy

  18. #18
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    I do, it's still on a K member I removed from a junked 1989 Turbo Caravan.

    It's probably easy to duplicate, from memory it's just a welded brace.

    Thanks
    Randy

    Quote Originally Posted by Barraguy View Post
    Thanks for confirming what I thought I saw. Do you have a OEM arm that you could get me a picture of?


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
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  19. #19
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Quote Originally Posted by Barraguy View Post
    Thanks for confirming what I thought I saw. Do you have a OEM arm that you could get me a picture of?
    Sorry I haven't visited the forum for a couple days. The s body arms are braced underneath. I don't see them on the rock Auto pics but then they don't show the underside of the arm either. I have pics at home on my PC I think and if I get to them I'll try and post them. But there should be a set in any junkyard. Your gonna wanna try and get a set of poly bushings for them and I'd put Napa heavy duty ball joints in so getting a new set from rock Auto with their cheap crap is kinda pointless anyway imo.

  20. #20
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    Re: L body rear bar question

    Update: Iíve been able to achieve visible camber increase by slotting the top hole of the coil over. When just the bottom bolt is in place as a pivot and you push on the top of the rotor you can see that the strut side of the top hole went past the end of the slot. By lengthing the slot Iíve allowed the top bolt to slide closer to the tube. I donít have much, but itís visibly better than before

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