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Thread: Interchangable LSD

  1. #21
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I apologize to the OP for a slightly off topic question while we are talking about LSD. I am currently installing my TU traction squared LSD in my CSX. I am still reading up on gear based LSD and ran into a surprising debate that I am hope you all can hep clarify. I have seen Jeep owners complain about gear type LSD on ice or rainy surfaces, some claim the vehicles are difficult to control on these surfaces and the open diff is superior. Other say the gear based LSD works great on these surfaces...
    It appears a significant number are on each side of the argument.
    Anyone with experience on either side?
    The OBX I used worked fine in the rain.

  2. #22
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    What are the problems they complain about? I've heard of guys complaining that with both wheels spinning in a FWD car due to an LSD, that it feels like it sucks the car away from the direction one wants to travel in a turn. The viscous coupling unit in CSX 42 certainly does that, but getting off the gas is a quick solution.

  3. #23
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    They complain if one wheel is off the ground it acts like an open diff.

    Thanks
    Randy

    "This time, you actually lift a tire off of the ground, maybe while traversing a ditch. As we said above, a tire in the air can support zero torque, and zero multiplied by 4.5 still equals zero. But here, you can apply a little bit of pressure to the brake pedal, so you generate a brake load of, say, 100 lb-ft. The Torsen works off of the brake load just like it would a traction load, and then Scenario 4 is essentially repeated. This time, though, because you have your foot on the brake, youíre not as likely to spin up the low-traction tire."

    https://torsen.com/ask-torsen-torque...nal-questions/


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
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  4. #24
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    They can't be ordered individually...batch orders only. 30 or 50 at a time.
    Straight from the source
    Good morning Craig,
    Thank you for your enquiry.

    We do have QDF3I in stock and can be bought individually at £715 plus shipping.

    If you would like to proceed with an order please can you provide me with the following information; full name/company name, invoice/delivery address, VAT number (if applicable) and your telephone number.
    If you have any questions or if I can be of any further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact me.

    Kind regards

    Quaife Sales Team
    715 pounds is about 987 USD right now. I may seriously consider buying one or two of these in the very near future now.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 382,000 miles. (In the family since new).
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore.

  5. #25

    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I apologize to the OP for a slightly off topic question while we are talking about LSD. I am currently installing my TU traction squared LSD in my CSX. I am still reading up on gear based LSD and ran into a surprising debate that I am hope you all can hep clarify. I have seen Jeep owners complain about gear type LSD on ice or rainy surfaces, some claim the vehicles are difficult to control on these surfaces and the open diff is superior. Other say the gear based LSD works great on these surfaces...
    It appears a significant number are on each side of the argument.
    Anyone with experience on either side?
    I believe the issue with FWD and limited slip is 'what happens when both wheels slip?' Answer, you lose steering... With an open diff, one wheel maybe spinning but the other wheel can steer. Something to be aware of...

  6. #26
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    I believe the issue with FWD and limited slip is 'what happens when both wheels slip?' Answer, you lose steering... With an open diff, one wheel maybe spinning but the other wheel can steer. Something to be aware of...
    Pretty sure you understeer in both cases.
    Tailgate at your own risk.

  7. #27
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Out of curiosity, how many would need to be purchased?
    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    https://shop.quaife.co.uk/qdf3i

    about $1200 at the current exchange rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Wow glad I bought two LSDs a few years back from TU
    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    Straight from the source


    715 pounds is about 987 USD right now. I may seriously consider buying one or two of these in the very near future now.
    So why would they tell a company a different story? Doesn't make sense. I will inquire, too, because I need one for an A568 and I don't want to make a hybrid transmission out of it to run an LSD.

    Never mind...you looked up one for the T350/A520/A523/A543...won't work for me...

  8. #28
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    What are the problems they complain about? I've heard of guys complaining that with both wheels spinning in a FWD car due to an LSD, that it feels like it sucks the car away from the direction one wants to travel in a turn. The viscous coupling unit in CSX 42 certainly does that, but getting off the gas is a quick solution.
    Because when both wheels start spinning, you understeer like the thing is on ice. Been there, done that, have the skid marks in my pants to prove it! LOL Just like you found...get off the gas, reduce the steering angle, traction comes back and you can control the car again. The other thing is that they tend to go where they are pointed, and if the car is set up for autocross (or just quick turn-in in general), ANY little bump or crown in the road WILL cause you to go an unexpected direction if you aren't prepared. Quite a number of SRT-4's met the ditch because of this.

  9. #29
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Our Traction≤ Units were similar to the Eaton TrueTrac helical design. They have several videos on their site which help their customers understand how they worked. Some of the questions in this thread might be answered by watching them.

    https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catal...ferential.html

    Chris-TU
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  10. #30
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    Straight from the source


    715 pounds is about 987 USD right now. I may seriously consider buying one or two of these in the very near future now.
    So, I JUST got a reply from Quaife regarding the A555/A568 QDF16B differential:
    "This part is a is not stocked by Quaife as it is made to order product.
    The price is given on application and is subject to minimum order quantity.
    A 50% deposit is also required at the time of booking, with final payment due when production is completed"

    Emphasis is mine. So...it looks like this part will never be made again.

  11. #31
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    sad to hear ,
    though it makes me feel a little better about "the investment" sitting in the basement...now

  12. #32
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Canít expect a company to keep producing a part that is slow to sell or doesnít sell just because someone might want it in 5 years.
    Buy it when you see it, because it may be gone tomorrow. If you canít afford it, find another hobby because playing with cars s expensive.

  13. #33
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    For the minor strength difference that most here (more like everyone probably) will never realize there is no reason to pass up using the T350/523 based units.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 382,000 miles. (In the family since new).
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore.

  14. #34
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    For the minor strength difference that most here (more like everyone probably) will never realize there is no reason to pass up using the T350/523 based units.
    I don't think it's the strength difference, but the gearing difference for most who aren't going that route. I don't want a 3.50 hybrid trans in my minivan for example.

  15. #35
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I don't think it's the strength difference, but the gearing difference for most who aren't going that route. I don't want a 3.50 hybrid trans in my minivan for example.
    Partly, yes, but I think most just have this misconception that the "lesser" transmissions aren't as durable. The gearing of the 3.85 transmissions isn't all that great, honestly. Too low for a good launch, and makes the 8V engines rev too high for highway cruising. For heavy cars (which my application undoubtedly will be one of the most dense TM's out there when it's done) it makes sense. The van transmissions also had an extra low 1st gear, making them practically useless for anything but that application (from memory here). Also, people forget that there is gearing option that is in between...the 3.77. It's not nearly as common as the 3.50, especially in the 4-banger applications, but it DOES exist.

  16. #36
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Partly, yes, but I think most just have this misconception that the "lesser" transmissions aren't as durable. The gearing of the 3.85 transmissions isn't all that great, honestly. Too low for a good launch, and makes the 8V engines rev too high for highway cruising. For heavy cars (which my application undoubtedly will be one of the most dense TM's out there when it's done) it makes sense. The van transmissions also had an extra low 1st gear, making them practically useless for anything but that application (from memory here). Also, people forget that there is gearing option that is in between...the 3.77. It's not nearly as common as the 3.50, especially in the 4-banger applications, but it DOES exist.
    Not to mention the fact that the 3.77 FD came with the gearset which is nearly as coarse as the Getrag units. Honestly, I think they came in the vast majority of Shadow America and the like in the last 3 years of the run. Of course, finding them these days is getting rough.

  17. #37
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Not to mention the fact that the 3.77 FD came with the gearset which is nearly as coarse as the Getrag units. Honestly, I think they came in the vast majority of Shadow America and the like in the last 3 years of the run. Of course, finding them these days is getting rough.
    Yeah, I think you are right. I found one in a 2nd gen van once (couldn't yank it at the time...sucky.) All V6's 91-up also got the 3.77. If anyone guts one for the gearset I am game for the case!

  18. #38
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/transmanual.html

    looks to me as the 555 & 568 have the least bite in first gear..with a 3o - ish ratio
    but I question the list shown here as I've seen two first gear ratios posted for the 555's.. somewhere else

    maybe for early vs late 555's (?)

    something maybe like a 3;29 ..and 3:30 - something ..ish?

    I think that might have been the article I read comparing my 688 trans to it - with a 3:69 first /4:08 fd

    I remember first with my 305 fd 525 trans didn't go much further than one . one and a half lanes across an intersection before second had to happen

    L body . MP lm .. tap gas to bring rpm's up to 3500 twice as I count off the three second light change over ..that brings boost in manifold up to 10-ish pounds ..in the third second ,as the light goes green, slip out clutch..BFG euro ta tires go scuff scuff grab.. car ..is gone
    ..well gone ..if you were sitting in the 5.0 mustang next to me...

    a stock 5.0 mustang could never beat that off the line or catch it before 100mph..

    and strength of transmissions means absolutely nothing with 50 000 miles and a sloppy set of bearings..at that point they're all becoming time delay grenades
    that and the single weakest part is the same to all..the little bolts holding the forks to the internal rods

    they thread into the fork and a bullet like tip pokes into the hole drilled in the
    rod..
    which is fine .. until you break the tip off the bolt..then you get a cracked case as it goes through to the diff section

    those little bolts need replaced with full length thread bolts and the forks & rods need to be thread taped as one..then if the bolt breaks ..that's all that happens..

    I did that to a 555

    my power shifts were maybe a little extreme.. step on clutch only enough to pull it out of gear.. SLAM it into second or third hard enough the trans sounds like a hammer & anvil .. or a shotgun.. and .. no engine speed flail..
    so, ..yeah .. those little bolts ain't strong enough for THAT...

  19. #39
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    The 523 came in a 3.85 final drive for 90-91. As well as the more popular 3.50 when hybrid transmissions were all the thing to have.

    3.77 units (everything 92 and later, except 568) are by far the most common because they were made for almost 4 years. They were made as a one size fits all compromise by lowering the highway revs but offsetting the lost off the line pull by putting in a lower first gear going from 3:1 that everything used up until 1991 and switched to 3.31:1 for 1992 when the 3.77 came out.

    Good fix for a heavier car, totally out of place in a lightweight P body. The irony being a Shadow/Sundance was probably where a majority of them ended up.
    Last edited by 135sohc; 04-10-2021 at 09:38 PM.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 382,000 miles. (In the family since new).
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore.

  20. #40
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    Re: Interchangable LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/transmanual.html

    looks to me as the 555 & 568 have the least bite in first gear..with a 3o - ish ratio
    but I question the list shown here as I've seen two first gear ratios posted for the 555's.. somewhere else

    maybe for early vs late 555's (?)
    The vans got a unique gearset in that 1st was a lower ration (higher numerically). Also, even though they were A555/A568 with a 3.85 FD, they had 2-pinion diffs. Now, it's been a while since I've messed with these, so I might be getting something wrong, but I know for fact I have seen a van transmission with a different 1st gear, and I have seen a 3.85FD with a 2-pinion diff (still had a 4-pinion housing IIRC).



    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    and strength of transmissions means absolutely nothing with 50 000 miles and a sloppy set of bearings..at that point they're all becoming time delay grenades
    that and the single weakest part is the same to all..the little bolts holding the forks to the internal rods

    they thread into the fork and a bullet like tip pokes into the hole drilled in the
    rod..
    which is fine .. until you break the tip off the bolt..then you get a cracked case as it goes through to the diff section

    those little bolts need replaced with full length thread bolts and the forks & rods need to be thread taped as one..then if the bolt breaks ..that's all that happens..

    I did that to a 555

    my power shifts were maybe a little extreme.. step on clutch only enough to pull it out of gear.. SLAM it into second or third hard enough the trans sounds like a hammer & anvil .. or a shotgun.. and .. no engine speed flail..
    so, ..yeah .. those little bolts ain't strong enough for THAT...
    Well, that's where a positive stop shifter comes into play Too bad they are only for the 3-plane transmissions. But the idea wouldn't be hard to adapt to a 4-plane.

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    The 523 came in a 3.85 final drive for 90-91. As well as the more popular 3.50 when hybrid transmissions were all the thing to have.

    3.77 units (everything 92 and later, except 568) are by far the most common because they were made for almost 4 years. They were made as a one size fits all compromise by lowering the highway revs but offsetting the lost off the line pull by putting in a lower first gear going from 3:1 that everything used up until 1991 and switched to 3.31:1 for 1992 when the 3.77 came out.

    Good fix for a heavier car, totally out of place in a lightweight P body. The irony being a Shadow/Sundance was probably where a majority of them ended up.
    I *could* be wrong, but I am fairly sure that 3.77 started in '91 in the A543 (only in that trans for that year).

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