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Thread: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

  1. #1
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    I am fairly certain it's common knowledge that that 16V TC uses a different transmission than the rest of the TM world (Getrag 284). With that comes a different clutch, which makes sense. It's a larger diameter unit (probably where the extra capacity clutch discs are developed from). Also, the dust cover tins are different...different transmission, so that makes sense. Not only is the clutch larger in diameter, but so is the flywheel! It does NOT fit the bellhousing of the other TM transmissions! I might have known that at some point and forgotten, but it was certainly a learning experience today!

    So, if you have a Masi 16V and want to swap to a regular TM transmission (there are valid reasons to do this), you need everything from the flywheel to the mount!

    Not that too many folks will ever run into this issue, but I figured I'd document it out in the digital world...just in case.

  2. #2
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Yes Nic K. had a 284 Getrag installed in his CSX. He had it taken out and a 568 was installed to take advantage of a LSD. The 284 tranny is open diff., no LSD options available. He was recently selling off several items removed from the changeover. I've driven Nic's CSX for hundreds of miles and what is REALLY nice is the taller FD in it. He had the flywheel lightened up a bunch too. Don't forget about cables and shifter as well. They're unique too.
    Todd

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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Yeah, I knew about the cables. Got that, the bracket, and the bobble strut bracket.

    Also, on the TC, the clutch cable bracket is different and I don't know if the stock TC clutch cable will work with the A568. The reason it is different is to clear the ABS. I am not running that, so I am swapping over to a regular Daytona cable and bracket. For a TC, if the person kept the ABS...I dunno what the solution would be.

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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    interesting to know

    I saw a TC shifter on ebay I think .. noted it was a little different from the usual

    but I have a question..
    looking at 16V crankshaft listings a year or so back one refereed to a "seven bolt crank"...?

    I thought that might have been an error .. but Idono..

    so my question , does the 16V motor use the same bolt pattern for the crank/flywheel as our regular 2.2"s

  5. #5
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    All the early and CB 16V cranks I've seen have had 8 bolts. I do seem to remember that they have an additional hole for a dowel pin in the crank. So the flywheel would have the actual dowel and the receiver hole in the crank. Yes the bolt pattern is the same.
    Todd

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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Can confirm, bolt pattern is the same regardless of whether it is a CB or a non-CB Masi.

    The shifter is a modified 89 type. It's actually a factory "short throw" (I think I remember 20% being the number?) because of the way they modified it (remember the 89 would be made for the A520/555 4-plane transmission, but the Getrag is a 3-plane transmission), but when used with the Getrag 284 I can say that it doesn't really feel like it.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor shmedley's Avatar
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Can confirm, bolt pattern is the same regardless of whether it is a CB or a non-CB Masi.

    The shifter is a modified 89 type. It's actually a factory "short throw" (I think I remember 20% being the number?) because of the way they modified it (remember the 89 would be made for the A520/555 4-plane transmission, but the Getrag is a 3-plane transmission), but when used with the Getrag 284 I can say that it doesn't really feel like it.
    Didn't the 4 plane transmission shifter come out until the 523/568? When they changed the shift pattern with reverse under 5th?
    Thanks
    Brad S.
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Quote Originally Posted by shmedley View Post
    Didn't the 4 plane transmission shifter come out until the 523/568? When they changed the shift pattern with reverse under 5th?
    No, it's the other way around. The 4-plane transmissions are the earlier ones with reverse over by 1st. In this configuration you have 4 possible up/down gates that can be selected (reverse being locked out and only being "up). The newer transmissions put reverse on the same up/down plane as 5th.

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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    thanks for confirming the crank bolts !!

    I guess there's more to the comment I read about TC's being almost impossible to stall

    heavy crank .. bigger heavier flywheel and pressure plate ..that'd do it.

    for a while I've had a pet theory the 16V crank might be an interesting experiment..I now it's heavy as hell , but, looking at FM's crankshaft listings and their optional 16 pounds (?) cut off the forged 2.2 crank...I look at the double weighted 16V crank and think there's a lot more places to cut weight from it.

    figuring too , all that weight is intended solely to make the old mopar 2.2 "feel" like a "fine automobile" when you stamp a trident on the trunklid and jack the price..

    while l it may well still turn out heavier than a lightened normal forged crank ,or might even be in the same neighborhood as a standard forged crank, I think MAYBE moving mass into the engine & reducing the flywheel weight might not be a bad plan

    also a double weighted crank distributes loads more evenly to both sides of the crank journals reducing stress in the block webbing at the mains..

    with machining to lighten .. the rod bearing being narrower is a non issue when you start shaving the sides of the crank weights ..

    yeah a big spendy project for the machine shop .. but I'd actually consider it IF the crank "nobody wants" didn't come to market with a cost that starts at $1000 ..$1500, plus a 30% exchange .. shipping ete etc...

    they didn't sell TC's in Canada ...

    (5 to 7 hun .. I'd consider ..wink nudge )

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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    thanks for confirming the crank bolts !!

    I guess there's more to the comment I read about TC's being almost impossible to stall

    heavy crank .. bigger heavier flywheel and pressure plate ..that'd do it.

    for a while I've had a pet theory the 16V crank might be an interesting experiment..I now it's heavy as hell , but, looking at FM's crankshaft listings and their optional 16 pounds (?) cut off the forged 2.2 crank...I look at the double weighted 16V crank and think there's a lot more places to cut weight from it.

    figuring too , all that weight is intended solely to make the old mopar 2.2 "feel" like a "fine automobile" when you stamp a trident on the trunklid and jack the price..

    while l it may well still turn out heavier than a lightened normal forged crank ,or might even be in the same neighborhood as a standard forged crank, I think MAYBE moving mass into the engine & reducing the flywheel weight might not be a bad plan

    also a double weighted crank distributes loads more evenly to both sides of the crank journals reducing stress in the block webbing at the mains..

    with machining to lighten .. the rod bearing being narrower is a non issue when you start shaving the sides of the crank weights ..

    yeah a big spendy project for the machine shop .. but I'd actually consider it IF the crank "nobody wants" didn't come to market with a cost that starts at $1000 ..$1500, plus a 30% exchange .. shipping ete etc...

    they didn't sell TC's in Canada ...

    (5 to 7 hun .. I'd consider ..wink nudge )
    I have been pondering the use of a Masi crank for an "all out" build for a lot of the same reasons you state. It is a very nice part, for sure. Very dense. Personally, I wouldn't lighten it, but just do some knife-edging and get the rod journals done to Honda (1.88 I think) size. Use with aluminum rods/custom pistons and you have a very spin-happy engine. This would be a power dyno queen, nothing more. I'd have to take a closer look at the oil galleries, but something tells me they are more than fine.

    Currently I don't have a "good" Masi crank. I have 2 bad ones. 1 will make a great lamp. The other...MAYBE could be saved by a good machinist. It's for a non-CB engine, though.

  11. #11
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    I have a Masi CB crank that has been cut on both rod and main journals. I would be perfect for cutting rod journals for something like Honda size. It came from running 16V TC, but I wasn't very impressed with the work the machine shop did on the engine prior to me purchasing TC. It's been sitting all lubed up downstairs keeping company with other steel and cast cranks.
    I would entertain selling it, but shipped would be killer, esp. to Canada. I have several nice crank boxes to ship it in. What I don't have is the sprocket for it, as it is screwed onto another Forged crank.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Do the Masi cranks have a rolled radius like the regular Chrysler cranks??

    Thanks
    Randy


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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    Do the Masi cranks have a rolled radius like the regular Chrysler cranks??

    Thanks
    Randy
    I would have to look again, but with all of the other things that crank has going for it, I would be shocked if it didn't.

  14. #14
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Yes Randy I believe they do.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Masi 16V clutch/flywheel differences

    Changing the stroke and journal diameter prompted my question.

    Thanks
    Randy

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Yes Randy I believe they do.


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

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