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Thread: '89 TII Camshaft Help

  1. #1
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    '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Howdy gang,

    So I'm finishing up my Lancer rebuild, but am in need of a new camshaft. There's a lot of information/options out there, but I don't need anything radical.

    My engine is an '89 TII CB, mild modifications.

    Stage III FWD calibration

    2.5" opened up exhaust with stock 2.25" wastegate

    Very mild port/polish on the head and manifolds I did years ago myself. Nothing crazy, just smoothing out some areas mostly.

    Max boost I run is 15psi via MBC


    I have the PT lifters and shims in the head right now, so I was hoping to be able to keep them instead of getting a grind. However, I don't know where to source a camshaft from. I've heard that the TBI cams work with PT lifters and are actually a slight upgrade for stock/mild builds.

    Can anyone shed some light on where I might find a good cam for this thing and what I should be looking for? The casting marks on my original cam are as follows: 7849, 244, L-7

    If all else fails I'll probably get a regrind kit from FWDPerformance, but I'll be losing the PT lifters and I'm trying not to do that as the block just got rebuilt with forged pistons. I'd like to get power above 5000rpm if possible lol.

  2. #2
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    I've had good luck with stock roller cams. Failing that, I would call Cindy and/or Chris and see what they have that'll meet your goals.

  3. #3
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I've had good luck with stock roller cams. Failing that, I would call Cindy and/or Chris and see what they have that'll meet your goals.
    I'd be perfectly happy with a stock roller cam just like I have now, but I don't know where to find one? I'm on the west coast and it seems like even the junkyards around here can't get you much for TD's.

    I have been in contact with Chris as I got my forged pistons, clutch kit, etc. through him for the rebuild. But all he could offer me for a cam is his R5 which is definitely overkill and a poor match for my engine.

    For those who are curious, you can see the state of my current cam in this little google album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/qRYTvUmKdVxWEZZu7

  4. #4
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    It doesn't have to be a roller out of a turbo car. Frankly, there is so little difference between any of the rollers that I don't think the butt dyno will detect the swap.

  5. #5
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Well that is helpful actually.

    I do have a spare head that came off of a '90 (I think) Lebaron TI engine. Cam and followers look good. I just didn't know if it would work out as the casting numbers are totally different.
    Spare cam casting# EP 4085, WFI

    If you or anybody can confirm that using the cam won't cause any problems, I can just slap that baby in there.

    Appreciate the help, Cordes. You've always been quick to lend a hand when I run into occasional snags.

  6. #6
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Any time!

    Slap that cam in there. The casting numbers on our cams are all but meaningless. You can't tell one from another with them from what I understand. So long as it's a roller cam, you're good to go.

  7. #7
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Awesome, thanks man!

    Now if there's any magic you can work to help me find these misc. parts, I'll be able to get this thing back on the road lol

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ld-please-help!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Awesome, thanks man!

    Now if there's any magic you can work to help me find these misc. parts, I'll be able to get this thing back on the road lol

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?85702-Need-misc-parts-to-complete-89-TII-rebuild-please-help!

  8. #8
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Well, the oil pan bolt is pretty easy. Just use one from the hardware store. I think they're M8. You'd have an oddball, but at least it would be easy. You really need to find a car in the JY with a 2.2 or 2.5 in it from 89 up. It will have everything you need on there.

  9. #9
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Well, the oil pan bolt is pretty easy. Just use one from the hardware store. I think they're M8. You'd have an oddball, but at least it would be easy. You really need to find a car in the JY with a 2.2 or 2.5 in it from 89 up. It will have everything you need on there.
    So I have literally just finished calling about 7 different junk/wrecking yards near me, including B&R Auto Wrecking. NOBODY has ANY '89+ 2.2/2.5 cars or parts.

    If anyone has had luck with local wrecking yards, I'd love their contact info (the JY, not your personal contact info lol) to see if they could ship out to the west coast. There just isn't anything here.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    If you only want a stock replacement roller camshaft then look up something for a later TBI car.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...098086&jsn=476

    I went through advance auto parts and got something for less than $75 delivered.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 377,000 miles. (In the family since new).
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore.

  11. #11
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    If you only want a stock replacement roller camshaft then look up something for a later TBI car.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...098086&jsn=476

    I went through advance auto parts and got something for less than $75 delivered.
    Thank you! I should have thought to look for this, but for some reason it just didn't occur to me. Next time I make it out to the shop I'm going to closely inspect the spare cam I have again. If anything's questionable I'll likely go this route and get a new set of rollers through one of our vendors here.

  12. #12
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Hey again,

    I had a question I wanted to run by you guys (I am by no means experienced with in-depth cam/intake theory).

    I ordered this camshaft through Advance auto as suggested: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...I8P5%2FCJmDtqV

    I noticed the following specifications:

    Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 194 deg
    Exhaust Duration at .050 inch Lift: 191 deg

    While browsing my dealership service manual for 1989 engines I saw the following specs:

    Intake Duration: 236 deg
    Exhaust Duration: 232 deg

    This is for standard engines, Turbocharged are 228/228 deg respectively.

    Now is this going to cause a problem? Maybe I just don't understand something here, but I wanted to get some feedback from more knowledgeable people.

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    I'm not up to date on the latest but traditionally OEM's measured duration at .006" lift.

    The aftermarket started using .050" lift so customers could compare cams accurately.

    This early opening period is often refereed to as the lash ramp.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

  14. #14
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    I'm not up to date on the latest but traditionally OEM's measured duration at .006" lift.

    The aftermarket started using .050" lift so customers could compare cams accurately.

    This early opening period is often refereed to as the lash ramp.

    Thanks
    Randy
    Actually that makes a lot of sense. My manual didn't tell me how they measured the duration, it just gave me a value. Thanks for clearing that up!

  15. #15
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Glad to be of any help!!

    Our cams are relatively hard to measure but luckily relatively easy to swap.

    Simply stated, swapping cams is easier than measuring unless you're Todd

    Todd, 4 L bodys, is one of the few who have spent much time measuring.

    The finger follower system makes measuring a challenging event.

    Experimenting with cam timing can be rewarding as you can often feel it.

    Advancing can enhance bottom end and retarding can enhance the top end.

    In general, I find retarding most beneficial with our cars when modified.

    However, around town, a T-II car can feel perkier off idle with some advance.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Without diving deep into cam specs, I recall that the 88 TBI roller was preferred. I picked up a few NOS off eBay a while ago, seller still has two more.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Ch...b-c98b895143e9
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...rbo-roller-cam
    There’s another thread about centerline for that cam too. Just search the 88 TBI cam model # and you should be able to find it.

  17. #17
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggie Fisher View Post
    Without diving deep into cam specs, I recall that the 88 TBI roller was preferred. I picked up a few NOS off eBay a while ago, seller still has two more.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Ch...b-c98b895143e9
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...rbo-roller-cam
    There’s another thread about centerline for that cam too. Just search the 88 TBI cam model # and you should be able to find it.
    The only thing that confuses me is the cam timing, '88 TBI cam is 4* RET it looks like? And yet that part number was used for just about every cam in several years?

    Also putting a round tooth sprocket on a square tooth cam will change the timing as well. Honestly I'm more confused now than before lol.

    How am I supposed to know which version camshaft I'm getting?
    Last edited by Mudman; 08-11-2020 at 04:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudman View Post
    The only thing that confuses me is the cam timing, '88 TBI cam is 4* RET it looks like? And yet that part number was used for just about every cam in several years?

    Also putting a round tooth sprocket on a square tooth cam will change the timing as well. Honestly I'm more confused now than before lol.

    How am I supposed to know which version camshaft I'm getting?
    My butt dyno has never noticed a difference between any of the combinations. Unless you've got a combination of parts which are the maximum possible for tolerance stacking you'll be fine.

  19. #19
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    On an otherwise perfectly tuned Engine one can feel the cam timing effect.

    A roller in say a 1986 GLHT/GLHS is very noticeable due to the retarded cam.

    All else equal a slider makes more power than a roller.

    Roller rockers on a slider increase bottom end dramatically, it advances lots.

    Naturally the Engine is out of breath by 3500 RPM.

    As Cordoeolla mentioned its easier/faster to try things than measure.

    Just begin with a perfectly tuned fine running Engine first.

    A cam swap doesn't fix anything unless the original is broken or burned up.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

  20. #20
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    Re: '89 TII Camshaft Help

    Well I picked up one of those NOS cams off Ebay and will be installing that. Thinking about getting an adjustable cam gear but just leaving it on zero until the engine gets broken in a little so I can play with the cam timing down the road (bottom end was recently rebuilt and has zero miles on it).

    Also just going to keep the Sealed Power cam I ordered as a backup for years later, who knows how long aftermarket will even offer new cams for these cars.

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