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Thread: AC How To?

  1. #121
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    Well, I thought I didn't get something sealed up the last time I filled the van with refrigerant. However, the pressure was approximately 85PSI at 80* so I don't think that's it. The compressor won't kick on at all. If I jump the pressure switch, it should kick on the compressor; is that right?

  2. #122
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: AC How To?

    As taken from FCA service library.

    A/C PERFORMANCE TEST

    WARNING:Review the warnings and cautions for this system before performing the procedure. Failure to follow these instructions may result in serious or fatal injury.



    NOTE:When connecting the service equipment coupling to the line fitting, verify that the valve of the coupling is fully closed. This will reduce the amount of effort required to make the connection.


    NOTE:The ambient air temperature of the location where the vehicle will be tested must be a minimum of 16 C (60 F). Also the A/C evaporator temperature must be a minimum of 18 C (65 F) prior to conducting the A/C Performance Test.


    1. Connect a tachometer and a manifold gauge set or an A/C recycling/charging station.
    2. Operate the heating-A/C system under the following conditions.
      • Engine at 1,000 rpm at operating temperature
      • Door or windows closed
      • Transmission in Park or Neutral with parking brake set (depending on application)
      • A/C heater controls set to Recirculation mode (max-A/C), full cool, panel mode, blower set to high and with A/C compressor engaged. If the A/C compressor does not engage, see the A/C System Diagnosis table.

    3. Insert a thermometer in the driver side center panel air outlet and operate the A/C system until the thermometer temperature stabilizes or a minimum of 5 minutes.

      NOTE:This procedure requires the technician to know what the temperature and relative humidity is at the time of the test. The temperature must be combined with the relative humidity to calculate the apparent ambient temperature ("feels like" temperature), when the temperatures are above 21 C (70 F). Use the current ambient temperature and the relative humidity in your location. This information can be obtained from multiple sources, such as the internet or local news media.

    4. With the A/C clutch engaged, compare the air temperature at the center panel outlet and the compressor discharge pressure (high side) to the A/C Performance Temperature and Pressure chart. The A/C clutch may cycle, depending upon the ambient temperature and humidity. If the A/C clutch cycles, use the readings obtained before the clutch disengaged (coldest temperature).




    A/C PERFORMANCE TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE

    Ambient Air Temperature (Apparent)21 C
    (70 F)
    27 C
    (80 F)
    32 C
    (90 F)
    38 C
    (100 F)
    43 C
    (110 F)
    Maximum Allowable Air Temperature at Center Panel Outlet9 C
    (48 F)
    9 C
    (48 F)
    12 C
    (54 F)
    15 C
    (59 F)
    18 C
    (65 F)
    Suction Pressure at Service Port (Low Side)138 to 310 kPa
    (20 to 45 psi)
    138 to 345 kPa
    (20 to 50 psi)
    207 to 365 kPa
    (30 to 55 psi)
    207 to 414 kPa
    (30 to 60 psi)
    241 to 448 kPa
    (35 to 65 psi)
    Discharge Pressure at Service Port (High Side)1034 to 1724 kPa
    (150 to 250 psi)
    1379 to 2068 kPa
    (200 to 300 psi)
    1551 to 2241 kPa
    (225 to 325 psi)
    1724 to 2413 kPa
    (250 to 350 psi)
    2068 to 2758 kPa
    (300 to 400 psi)

  3. #123
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    Re: AC How To?

    Condition
    Possible Causes
    Correction
    For applications with a fixed displacement compressor, rapid A/C clutch cycling with poor panel outlet temperatures
    1. Low refrigerant system charge
    1. See Refrigerant System Leaks in this group (Refer to 24 - Heating and Air Conditioning/Plumbing/Diagnosis and Testing) . Test the refrigerant system for leaks. Repair, evacuate and charge the refrigerant system, if required.
    Equal pressures, but the A/C clutch does not engage
    1. No refrigerant in the refrigerant system
    1. See Refrigerant System Leaks in this group (Refer to 24 - Heating and Air Conditioning/Plumbing/Diagnosis and Testing) . Test the refrigerant system for leaks. Repair, evacuate and charge the refrigerant system, if required.
    2. Open fuse
    2. See Wiring Information. Check the fuses in the Body Control Module. Repair the shorted circuit or component and replace the fuses.
    3. Inoperative A/C clutch coil
    3. See A/C Compressor in this group. Test the A/C clutch coil and replace, if required.
    4. Inoperative A/C clutch relay
    4. See A/C Clutch Relay in this group. Test the A/C clutch relay and relay circuits. Repair the circuits or replace the relay, if required.
    5. Improperly installed or inoperative evaporator temperature sensor
    5. See Evaporator Temperature Sensor in this group. Test the sensor and replace, if required.
    6. Inoperative A/C pressure transducer
    6. See A/C Pressure Transducer in this group. Test the sensor and replace, if required.
    7. Inoperative Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
    7. See Group 28 - DTC Based Diagnostics. Test the PCM and replace, if required.
    Normal pressures, but A/C Performance Test air temperatures at center panel outlet are too high
    1. Excessive refrigerant oil in system
    1. See Refrigerant Oil Level in this group. Recover the refrigerant from the refrigerant system and inspect the refrigerant oil content. Restore the refrigerant oil to the proper level, if required.
    2. Blend door actuator or cable inoperative or improperly installed
    2. See Blend Door Actuator or Cable in this group. Inspect for proper operation and replace, if required.
    3. Blend door(s) inoperative or sealing improperly
    3. See HVAC Housing in this group. Inspect each blend door for proper operation and sealing. Repair if required.
    The low side pressure is normal or slightly low, and the high side pressure is too low
    1. Low refrigerant system charge
    1. See Refrigerant System Leaks in this group (Refer to 24 - Heating and Air Conditioning/Plumbing/Diagnosis and Testing) . Test the refrigerant system for leaks. Repair, evacuate and charge the refrigerant system, if required.
    2. Refrigerant flow through the A/C evaporator is restricted
    2. See A/C Evaporator in this group. Replace the restricted A/C evaporator, if required.
    3. Inoperative A/C compressor
    3. See A/C Compressor in this group. Replace the compressor, if required.
    The low side pressure is normal or slightly high, and the high side pressure is too high
    1. A/C condenser air flow restricted
    1. See A/C Condenser in this group. Check the A/C condenser for damaged fins, foreign objects obstructing air flow through the condenser fins and missing or improperly installed air seals. Clean, repair or replace components as required.
    2. Refrigerant flow through the A/C receiver/drier is restricted
    2. See A/C Receiver/Drier in this group. Replace the restricted A/C receiver/drier, if required.
    3. Inoperative radiator cooling fan
    3. See Group 7 - Cooling. Test the radiator cooling fan and replace, if required.
    4. Refrigerant system overcharged
    4. See Refrigerant System Charge in this group. Recover the refrigerant from the refrigerant system. Charge the refrigerant system to the proper level, if required.
    5. Air in the refrigerant system
    5. See Refrigerant System Leaks in this group (Refer to 24 - Heating and Air Conditioning/Plumbing/Diagnosis and Testing) . Test the refrigerant system for leaks. Repair, evacuate and charge the refrigerant system, if required.
    6. Engine overheating
    6. See Group 7 - Cooling. Test the engine cooling system and repair, if required.
    The low side pressure is too high, and the high side pressure is too low
    1. Accessory drive belt slipping
    1. See Group 7 - Cooling. Inspect the accessory drive belt condition and tension. Tighten or replace the accessory drive belt, if required.
    2. Inoperative A/C expansion valve
    2. See A/C Expansion Valve in this group. Replace the A/C expansion valve, if required.
    3. Inoperative A/C compressor
    3. See A/C Compressor in this group. Replace the A/C compressor, if required.
    The low side pressure is too low, and the high side pressure is too high
    1. Restricted refrigerant flow through the refrigerant lines
    1. See Liquid Line, Suction Line and Discharge Line in this group. Inspect the refrigerant lines for kinks, tight bends or improper routing. Correct the routing or replace the refrigerant lines, as required.
    2. Restricted refrigerant flow through the A/C expansion valve
    2. See A/C Expansion Valve in this group. Replace the A/C expansion valve, if required.
    3. Restricted refrigerant flow through the A/C condenser
    3. See A/C Condenser in this group. Replace the restricted A/C condenser, if required.

  4. #124
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    Wow! thanks a ton for all of that info.

  5. #125
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    Re: AC How To?

    Well, my AC know how continues to grow while the actual AC is still luke warm. I tested the low pressure switch, and the connector to it. Those were both good. I tested the electronic clutch cutout deal and it was bad. I cut the two C20 circuit wires on the ECCS side of things and spliced them together. Now I have a functional clutch once more. From there, I let out some of the refrigerant. The temps did go down to about 57.5*F, but I want to replace the heater bypass valve before I go any further. I think I got down to around 31.5lbs of pressure on the low side before I stopped. I'll replace the valve in the morning and report back.

    Thanks again to all of those who have stuck with me through this. It has been a steep learning curve, but I now have semi-functional AC in a system that clearly hand't had it in decades.

  6. #126
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    Sounds good! beats the heck out of paying some shop a ton to get the same results.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  7. #127
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
    Sounds good! beats the heck out of paying some shop a ton to get the same results.
    Granted, a person with experience would have had this licked in no time. I'm not sure how familiar the average shop around here would be with the old system in this thing though. I am certain it would have cost a fortune to achieve what I've done thus far. To finish it off, I'm sure I would be at the cost of the vehicle.

  8. #128
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    Re: AC How To?

    I replaced the valve this morning and it works very well. The temps in the van were at about 50*, so that was a big difference. I'll continue to lower the pressure a little and see if that helps more. With the new condenser and compressor I would think the performance capability of this system should be pretty good.

  9. #129
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    Keep in mind, you are trying to cool a greenhouse with a heater in front of it, 50 is getting a lot better. Does your receiver/dryer have a sight glass on the top? If so you want a solid liquid, no bubbles, the expansion valve is what works on the pressure in the evaporator. That is why the better (more expensive) systems used to use some kind of evaporator pressure control, Chrysler had the EPR (Evaporator Pressure Regulator) followed by the ETR (Evaporator Temperature Regulator). GM had probably the best systems as far as control, but the Frigidaire A6 was a power hog.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  10. #130
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    I'm measuring the temps in the vents up front. I was hoping to hit 40* like I have in my 1st gen Neon right now. When my Lancer had AC in it, that was ice cold and awesome. I hope to have that on the road with AC by the end of this upcoming week.

  11. #131
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    just recharged my moms 05 300 touring with duster today. blows cold again.

    on a crappy harbor freight temp probe/meter it peaked low at 51deg out of the center vent before creeping up one degree as i added a touch more duster. it was 85-90 outside.

    ill test again with a better thermometer but that is within spec for a 300 from what i read.

    its just not like a 1g neon with temps in the 30's out of the center vent lol.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  12. #132
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    As were talking basic A/C here how does one use the little A/C oil content plastic testers?

    I've seen vids where they push them against the schrader valve.

    I have a couple but never figured out how to use them.

    What's the trick to get them to push the valve?

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
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