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Thread: AC How To?

  1. #61
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Y'all have me wanting to try the duster now. Did you guys try and empty all the mineral oil out of your system first and then add the ester? Or just add a little bit of ester to what's already there?
    My system was empty of oil when I install the system in my Sundance 5 years ago. I used ester at that time.
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  2. #62
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    ester can be mixed with mineral oil. mine too was empty of oil.... other than what the rebuilder of the compressor put in there to keep it lubed.... i used an almost empty can of duster to push 7.25oz of ester with dye into the system via the low side port. the oil injector only holds 2oz so i filled it up a few times and kept pushing it into the compressor while i left the high side valve cracked to atmosphere so it would flow in easy. then i slowly purged the little bit of pressure that was in there from the duster and then i vacuumed it down for an hour or so.

    then i charged it. 2 10z cans of duster and a smidge from another can that was almost empty. i was rushed (wife and kids requesting stuff) so i didnt even use my thermometer trick.... i just slammed 2 cans in (by the molecular weight calcs its .55 x the weight of R12 which came out to 20.9oz) and a spritz from the last one (i was clumsy purging the hose to the manifold so i wasted a little anyway)

    its blowing cold. i hopped in the car today to move it so i could mow the grass and it blew cold air almost immediately.

    the parallel flow condenser is working pretty well from my stationary tests. i still have to put a little bit of weather stripping here and there to improve efficiency of the system.

    the radiator and the condenser are the half size honda radiator area. if for some reason it cant cool once i get out on the road tuning and driving then ill swap in my scirocco sized dual core/pass radiator and the larger condenser to match. i now have the fittings so it would be a bleed off, drain the oil from the old condenser into the new one and add a touch, vacuum down and then recharge.

    since i can make hoses, i may swap to a universal receiver drier that has the screw on oring connections rather than those silly one bolt connections that the stock one has if they start to leak.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  3. #63
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    Is the duster refrigerant compatible with PAG oil?
    I think that is what I have in my current r134a charge.

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  4. #64
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Is the duster refrigerant compatible with PAG oil?
    I think that is what I have in my current r134a charge.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
    From what I've read it's compatible with pag and ester.

  5. #65
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    Re: AC How To?

    yup pag and ester. i have ester in my reliant cause its pretty much compatible with everything.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  6. #66
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    Re: AC How To?

    This is the idea I have kicking around. I want to keep functional a/c and uncover the intercooler core so it gets better airflow and it doesn't have all the heat from the condenser dumping into it
    Replacing the old style tube and whisker style with a parallel flow should be enough of a gain in heat transfer that it should work ok with the reduced size. Also these are half the thickness of the original style, definitely benough room to stack 2 of them in there if the one isn't enough.
    This is just a cheap generic universal from eBay, paid $59 with free shipping. There are some much nicer ones out there from the retro fit ac manufacturers but I wasn't willing to plunk down $140 on an experiment just yet.

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  7. #67
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    That looks like it will certainly give some efficiency gains. Nice work.

  8. #68
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    Re: AC How To?

    thats the style that i put in my reliant

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  9. #69
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    I had a bad experience with a cheap aftermarket condenser, it would not properly cool. I had a complete R134 factory system from a 1992 Sundance, but the condenser had a leak in the end crimps. I bought an eBay condenser, could not get the high side pressure down under where the second stage of my pusher fans came in and even then I had mostly froth in the sight glass and not much cooling. I went back with a new Chrysler one. I will report on it's behavior once I get the wiring finished.

  10. #70
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    On my Omni I used an early Caravan condenser as it uncovered the intercooler.

    It's a tight fit but lot narrower than any others I've seen.

    From memory I think it was from a 1986-87 Caravan.

    Thanks
    Randy


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  11. #71
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    Re: AC How To?

    As an HVAC engineer I must caution against Duracool and other R-12a products.

    "HC-12a is a mixture of hydrocarbons, specifically propane (R-290) and isobutane (R-600a)"

    Yikes. And people want to complain about how flammable R-1234yf is. Christ!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HC-12a

    Jeff

  12. #72

    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo SOB View Post
    As an HVAC engineer I must caution against Duracool and other R-12a products.

    "HC-12a is a mixture of hydrocarbons, specifically propane (R-290) and isobutane (R-600a)"

    Yikes. And people want to complain about how flammable R-1234yf is. Christ!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HC-12a

    Jeff
    A few comments on this. First, I was at Purdue when George Goble first came up with the idea of using a flammable mixture to replace R12. He tried unsuccessfully to light a charge with a Bic lighter. He was using a "reasonable" sized leak. The charge in an AC system is pretty small and short of catastrophic failure (EXTRAORDINARILY RARE) a leak that will drain a system in a day is still pretty small.

    Second, the big issue with R-1234yf is that when it burns, it creates a toxic gas... That is not a problem with propane.

  13. #73

    Re: AC How To?

    I was curious if anybody else was using sealing washers instead of the stock seals?

    I had a system that I was struggling to get to seal with the stock type seals. I started swapping in sealing washers (used in newer AC systems) and was able to get it to seal up. Maybe I could have gotten it to seal with standard seals, but it seems much easier to just use the sealing washers. The trickiest was the drier, used two washers on each side so that the nut does not rock/angle the connection.

  14. #74
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    I was curious if anybody else was using sealing washers instead of the stock seals?
    I tried that. They do work great. The tough part was keeping them centered on the compressor port. I tried to come up with a plate to hold them in place, but I couldn't get past the thickness tolerance requirements, galvanic corrosion issues, etc. I never really took it further because I just lapped every joint I could. Rubberized metal seals work great when you use them between 2 mirror finished surfaces. I digress... lapping is not practical for most.

  15. #75

    Re: AC How To?

    For clarity since your response implies that we are not talking about the same thing here is a link to what I am talking about.

    https://www.amazon.com/Four-Seasons-.../dp/B000DCNE2Q

    Rubberized metal washers seem to seal irregularities in surfaces easier/better than stock metal seals...


    On the 3l V6 engine the tubing for the AC compressor extends through the flange. The washer sits "snuggly" on the tube and makes bolting it on "easy".

  16. #76
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    Re: AC How To?

    Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about.



    For each compressor port you need 2 of these. These are designed to fit over a pilot pipe that gets squished between the facing surfaces. There's no pilot pipes on the A/C compressor pipes (suction or discharge), just that plastic gasket retainer thingy. As such, something needs to hold it in place, centering it over the holes.

    We are talking about the typical 2.2/2.5L A/C compressor, correct?



    Edit: now that I look at this picture I recall having to grind a flat spot on the seal washers to get them close enough together to be able to center on the hole. Yet another reason why I dropped the project.

  17. #77
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo SOB View Post
    As an HVAC engineer I must caution against Duracool and other R-12a products.

    "HC-12a is a mixture of hydrocarbons, specifically propane (R-290) and isobutane (R-600a)"

    Yikes. And people want to complain about how flammable R-1234yf is. Christ!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HC-12a

    Jeff
    I used to have the same concerns, but then I saw a test where basically they TRIED to get it to do bad stuff...the end result was a big "poof" of flame for a split second and that was it. Like I said, it was RIGGED to do it. Once I took into consideration that the charge itself is very small, and there isn't a continuous supply, my fear of it going up in flames pretty much went away. Doesn't mean I don't think anything could happen. I just think it would have to be some extraordinary circumstances for that to be a contributing factor to some sort of accident.

  18. #78
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    I used to have the same concerns, but then I saw a test where basically they TRIED to get it to do bad stuff...the end result was a big "poof" of flame for a split second and that was it. Like I said, it was RIGGED to do it. Once I took into consideration that the charge itself is very small, and there isn't a continuous supply, my fear of it going up in flames pretty much went away. Doesn't mean I don't think anything could happen. I just think it would have to be some extraordinary circumstances for that to be a contributing factor to some sort of accident.
    If I'm not mistaken, it's widely used in Canada and they don't have any problems with it.

  19. #79
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: AC How To?

    my father in law charged all his tractors with propane. occasionally they would develop a big leak, catch fire for a second and then it would stop.

    the worst part about it was that the cab would now get warm as the AC wasnt getting cold anymore.

    its not as flammable as the high pressure gasoline thats being force fed to the engine bay in mass quantity.

    big picture folks..... big picture.

    Brian

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
    I had a bad experience with a cheap aftermarket condenser, it would not properly cool. I had a complete R134 factory system from a 1992 Sundance, but the condenser had a leak in the end crimps. I bought an eBay condenser, could not get the high side pressure down under where the second stage of my pusher fans came in and even then I had mostly froth in the sight glass and not much cooling. I went back with a new Chrysler one. I will report on it's behavior once I get the wiring finished.
    was the condenser the factory style but just cheap?

    these are not. they are parallel flow condensers like a modern AC system and they work quite well.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  20. #80
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    Re: AC How To?

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    I was curious if anybody else was using sealing washers instead of the stock seals?

    I had a system that I was struggling to get to seal with the stock type seals. I started swapping in sealing washers (used in newer AC systems) and was able to get it to seal up. Maybe I could have gotten it to seal with standard seals, but it seems much easier to just use the sealing washers. The trickiest was the drier, used two washers on each side so that the nut does not rock/angle the connection.
    I use the stock flat black seal but coat them with red locktight!! Even works great on the dryer. I have used red locktight to seal high vacuum chambers that run less than a billionth of a atmosphere.
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

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