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Thread: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

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    93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    93 dodge shadow 2.5 na bone stock. Starts and runs but has almost a pre ignition dieseling/ knock. When it's running it's fine. Just got the car so haven't gotten to dig into it far yet. Has 112k on the clock and from what I'm told never had the head gasket done. I also have an issue with fluctuating coolant temperatures. New radiator thermostat and cap were put in. I redid the thermostat thinking that it was bad and it still fluctuates considerably but never overheats thus far. Seem to build very little pressure also. I did a compression test while it was warm and got 145-150-150-150 for 1234 in that order. Will be doing a coolant pressure test soon and a cold compression test. Also will be redoing vac lines seeing as they are slightly cracked. Thinking about deleting the egr and hot air intake at that time also. Thoughts? Thanks Brandon

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking



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    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    I say it not having one installed currently but the heat riser thingy does help in cold weather. I misplaced the metal plate the last time I was in there and forgot to install it. EGR will set a CEL just fyi.

    Hows the underside ? Give the headlights buff and drive it. If the headgasket is original its on borrowed time.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 355,000 miles. (In the family since new).
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore.

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    I say it not having one installed currently but the heat riser thingy does help in cold weather. I misplaced the metal plate the last time I was in there and forgot to install it. EGR will set a CEL just fyi.

    Hows the underside ? Give the headlights buff and drive it. If the headgasket is original its on borrowed time.
    Underside is immaculate. It's from California and only got here a few years ago. Just trying to address some issues . I dont quite understand your first sentence

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Does the temp fluctuate when AC button is off or on? The reason I ask is the vehicle should have a heater control bypass valve in it that opens and closes depending on where temp controls are set. If you have sub-par heat coming from vents, the heater core could be partially plugged up (usually thanks to someone putting in stop leak). If it is partially clogged up, the waterpump can cavitate because of lack of coolant circulation, which causes temperature swings and vehcile running hotter than it should. I had this happen in my CSX-T when i first bought it. AC engaged, car run normal temp, AC turned off and I was getting temp swings and running warmer than it should. Original owner trying to fix problem had shops repeatedly change headgaskets, waterpaumps, and radiators. Problem was heater cre was plugged up.
    This car really has radio delete? I agree with 135SOHC and headgasket is in your future. I drove a survivor 50k mile GLHT to SDAC last year. It was starting to weep a bit by the time I got it home. 35 years on original headgasket. My version of water injection (lol).
    Todd

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    One thing I noticed was it doent have said bypass valve and I dont even see the vac line that controls it in the engine bay. It never gets too hot just too cold. When the temp is warm the temp from the vents is adequate

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Does the temp fluctuate when AC button is off or on? The reason I ask is the vehicle should have a heater control bypass valve in it that opens and closes depending on where temp controls are set. If you have sub-par heat coming from vents, the heater core could be partially plugged up (usually thanks to someone putting in stop leak). If it is partially clogged up, the waterpump can cavitate because of lack of coolant circulation, which causes temperature swings and vehcile running hotter than it should. I had this happen in my CSX-T when i first bought it. AC engaged, car run normal temp, AC turned off and I was getting temp swings and running warmer than it should. Original owner trying to fix problem had shops repeatedly change headgaskets, waterpaumps, and radiators. Problem was heater cre was plugged up.
    This car really has radio delete? I agree with 135SOHC and headgasket is in your future. I drove a survivor 50k mile GLHT to SDAC last year. It was starting to weep a bit by the time I got it home. 35 years on original headgasket. My version of water injection (lol).
    Todd
    One thing I noticed was it doent have said bypass valve and I dont even see the vac line that controls it in the engine bay. It never gets too hot just too cold. When the temp is warm the temp from the vents is adequate. Yea this car has no radio lol
    Last edited by bgbmxer; 02-18-2020 at 06:34 PM.

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    I noticed that on rock auto they dont even offer the heater control valve for my year while previous years they do

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    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    That car would have never had said heater valve as original, one of those cost cutting things that most would never miss. Never seen a radio delete in real life, even more interesting that it does have tilt and rear defrost though.



    Quote Originally Posted by bgbmxer View Post
    Underside is immaculate. It's from California and only got here a few years ago. Just trying to address some issues . I dont quite understand your first sentence
    When you said hot air intake I thought you referred to the heat riser duct, from the top of the exhaust manifold to the bottom of the air box there should be a cardboard/foil tube and a flap valve driven by vacuum to help the engine heat up when cold. Your pictures of the brake booster show that tube is still present.

    What does that switch do ? almost looks oem'ish and old.
    1994 Shadow Sedan. 2.2 N/A, A568 355,000 miles. (In the family since new).
    1987 Shelby CSX #418. Long term rebuild and restore.

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Quote Originally Posted by 135sohc View Post
    That car would have never had said heater valve as original, one of those cost cutting things that most would never miss. Never seen a radio delete in real life, even more interesting that it does have tilt and rear defrost though.





    When you said hot air intake I thought you referred to the heat riser duct, from the top of the exhaust manifold to the bottom of the air box there should be a cardboard/foil tube and a flap valve driven by vacuum to help the engine heat up when cold. Your pictures of the brake booster show that tube is still present.

    What does that switch do ? almost looks oem'ish and old.
    Still trying to figure that out to be honest on the switch. One wire goes to the red wire on one of the headlights the others go to the relays on the shock tower 4 wires total I'm thinking it was some kind of security thing. Story goes the car was ordered new by a guy in Compton and he figured if he didnt have a radio it couldn't be stolen. So if the heater control valve wasnt from the factory any more does the heater control in the car have the ports to possibly add one in? As far as eliminating just wondering if it would make sense to delete some of those things like the hot air intake and cap off the egr tube while I am redoing vac lines also. If not I'll let them alone

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    I do know that Chrysler did away with the heater bypass at some point. Maybe 1993 was first year for that? I eliminate the bypass on all the cars I redo because they're phone to leaking and it really doesn't do much. Got tired of bolting on brand new aftermarket bypass valves to see them drip after install.
    That's funny logic about the radio. Out of curiosity, I looked and AM/FM 2 speaker radio was pretty cheap around $165 to 280 depending on discount pkg options. I thought someone was going Elcheapo when ordering.
    Todd

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    It's strange. Has tilt rear defroster and ac tho haha

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    I do know that Chrysler did away with the heater bypass at some point. Maybe 1993 was first year for that? I eliminate the bypass on all the cars I redo because they're phone to leaking and it really doesn't do much. Got tired of bolting on brand new aftermarket bypass valves to see them drip after install.
    That's funny logic about the radio. Out of curiosity, I looked and AM/FM 2 speaker radio was pretty cheap around $165 to 280 depending on discount pkg options. I thought someone was going Elcheapo when ordering.
    Todd
    It is strange but thays what I was told and I'm the 3rd owner of the car and it was in the same family since new. It does have tilt steering rear defroster and ac so cant complain much

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Have you checked the base timing? (pulled the coolant temp sensor)
    Run a check for exhaust gasses in the coolant?

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    Have you checked the base timing? (pulled the coolant temp sensor)
    Run a check for exhaust gasses in the coolant?
    I have not had a chance to check base timing. I had planned to check the timing belt and physical timing then look at the base timing. They have a tool that you put on the rad cap and it will change color of it gets exhaust gasses like from a blown head gasket

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Update. Went to check ignition timing but i have no Mark's what so ever on the torque converter not one at all. What's a person supposed to do now.... also I did play with the distributor and advanced and retarted timing and its definitely an ignition knock at idle.... thoughts ?

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    Update. Went to check ignition timing but i have no Mark's what so ever on the torque converter not one at all. What's a person supposed to do now.... also I did play with the distributor and advanced and retarted timing and its definitely an ignition knock at idle.... thoughts ? The engine did have a new transmission put in so I'm assuming that's where it went wrong
    ..

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    Re: 93 shadow 2.5 na rough starting and knocking

    Quote Originally Posted by bgbmxer View Post
    Update. Went to check ignition timing but i have no Mark's what so ever on the torque converter not one at all. What's a person supposed to do now.... also I did play with the distributor and advanced and retarted timing and its definitely an ignition knock at idle.... thoughts ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Update. Went to check ignition timing but i have no Mark's what so ever on the torque converter not one at all. What's a person supposed to do now.... also I did play with the distributor and advanced and retarted timing and its definitely an ignition knock at idle.... thoughts ? The engine did have a new transmission put in so I'm assuming that's where it went wrong
    ..
    Lots of people don't realize this but the flexplate has one hole that that has 2 flats built into it, you are supposed use that hole to line up with the converters lug that is also marked for proper timing mark alignment. One torque converter lug has a oval zero mark on it used for proper TDC orientation, but you may not be able to see that mark while installed. Find that hole with the flats built into the hole. Every factory torque converter for our cars I've seen has both a BDC and a TDC mark. So, you should be able to take out the four converter bolts, then move the torque converter one hole in either direction and put one or two bolts in and snug them up. What I would do then is put the engine at TDC on #1. Use straw or TDC tool in #1 plug hole, or if you have the lower timing cover off, line up the aux shaft, crankshaft and the cam pulley sprocket marks to find TDC. After you confirm that you're at true TDC, you should now see the mark on the torque converter through the timing hole window. It should be at zero if you have everything lined up correctly. If not, try moving the converter again one more hole and check again. Repeat until you have success. When you are good to go, tighten up the 4 torque converter lugs using 271 Loctite. Then re-time @ 12 when at operating temp and coolant temp sensor is unplugged.
    I doubt very seriously that the torque converter was welded up incorrectly if it was serviced. This isn't torque converter reman companies first rodeo. 99% the error was made by installers and not the company that serviced the converter. Your not the first guy to have had this happen to them, and you won't be the last.
    Todd
    Last edited by 4 l-bodies; 02-23-2020 at 12:57 AM.

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