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Thread: WTB: 87 LMs

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    WTB: 87 LMs

    I need some 87 LMs. My last good one died a couple days ago and I need to get my winter beater up and running. Let me know what you have. I'll be socketing it, so I don't care which 87 LM it is, but it must be an 87 unit.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Oh my. I better get going and get the SBEC/SBEC2 running as I have no spare good LM...
    What is killing them?
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    I thought your winter beater was the Neon?
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
    2003 Neon SXT - gone but never forgotten

    Can't polish a turd? Sure you can! Just don't reuse the rag afterwards, dummy!

  4. #4
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Oh my. I better get going and get the SBEC/SBEC2 running as I have no spare good LM...
    What is killing them?
    I don't know what is killing them. I pulled the good one I had out of the car and tried it in Joy's Daytona and it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work when I put it back into the NYer either. Either chip wouldn't even prime the pump. I could pull it apart and post pics.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnymopar View Post
    I thought your winter beater was the Neon?
    Joy drives the $100 Neon which has just eclipsed 270K. I do have a 95 Neon in reserve, but I try to keep the salt off of it. I'm currently driving 89 CSX #497 daily and will attempt to do so throughout the winter.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I'm currently driving 89 CSX #497 daily and will attempt to do so throughout the winter.
    I assume you are using some type of undercoating to help keep her from rusting in the salt. My Sundance is a winter and summer DD and undercoated.
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Oh my. I better get going and get the SBEC/SBEC2 running as I have no spare good LM...
    What is killing them?
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnymopar View Post
    I thought your winter beater was the Neon?
    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I assume you are using some type of undercoating to help keep her from rusting in the salt. My Sundance is a winter and summer DD and undercoated.
    I'll be using a combination of fluid film and used motor oil. This thing is pretty rough, so I'll do the best I can with it. There isn't much that's not spliced in the original brake and fuel lines from what I can tell. That's always a bad sign in my book.

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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I'll be using a combination of fluid film and used motor oil.
    that sound AOK
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    lol
    re , used motor oil

    best , quickest easiest rust penetrant I ever used

    2 or 3 drips via my truck's dipstick on my caliper bleeder..it was stuck fast when I tried it

    next day , it just unscrewed

    regular dino oil out of my truck with about 17-18ooo kms since the last change
    (my grand marquis went ten + years without an oil or filter change)


    re LM
    tryingbe posted he left behind the two 87 lm's he found in that car he pulled the two piece from

    but it was a few months ago not
    one stock one MP..

  9. #9
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    I have three on the way now. I'll post back up the next time I need some. I've lost a lot of LMs over the last couple years, so it may not be long...

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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I have three on the way now. I'll post back up the next time I need some. I've lost a lot of LMs over the last couple years, so it may not be long...
    This is alarming... I think I will switch the CSX to SBEC so I can carry a spare LM and PM in my Sundance DD until I have time to change it.
    Brian, could the issue be a corrupt EPROM, perhaps destroyed by cosmic rays??
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Could it just be 32 year old electronics? The Ford sites, particularly the truck groups are full of stories of failed 20+ year old EECs. I had one on my Taurus behave like a Buddist Monk in Vietnam and self incinerate coming out of my driveway. Key was a horrible acrid smell following a "pop" then no engine, but fuel pump running continuously. On them it seems to be the electrolytic capacitors failing.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  12. #12
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
    On them it seems to be the electrolytic capacitors failing.
    Good point several have mentioned this. I have a few Rubycons waiting....
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  14. #14
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    I have seen 2 dead LMs recently. One of which worked fine 2 or 3 years ago, and has been sitting on my shelf. There may be an age related data retention problem here, or maybe it's some other component like the crystal or the power supply.

    A recent project has me wondering though, if an '86 TI LM can be converted to an '87 TII LM (like a "171" module). As far as I can tell, ALL of the provisions are there in the board. In some cases, the TVS diodes for red connector pins 16 and 20 are missing, but they are just 1N4934 diodes, still readily available.

    The MAP sensor can be converted to external without any re-calibration. I just checked this yesterday, actually. Pin red-1 is connected on board to the MAP 5V feed line (red wire) and blue-19 is connected directly to the signal (white wire). The ground is just ground and can be spliced into pin red-25.

    There's still other differences, like a DNF resistor, capacitor or diode, but the traces all match, even if they aren't routed EXACTLY the same. As far as I can tell, socketing the lower chip and putting a "016" chip in will make it work.

    I am, however, without a car to test. The engine is still out of the GLHS, so all I can do is plug in a module to see if the pump primes and codes flash. I have it converted over to "171" style '87 TII configuration, but I connected blue-4 to the red-4 wire (fuel pacer light) so I can at least see if the '87 L-body is flashing the CEL still. I need another week or so to make this happen, but I'll need someone else to really test it in a running car.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Jeff,
    Good luck, I assume you will also need the transistors for the H bridge to drive the TII AIS. I have 87 pseudo schematics for the LM and PM. LMK via PM if you wish to have a copy
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  16. #16
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Jeff,
    Good luck, I assume you will also need the transistors for the H bridge to drive the TII AIS.
    Funny thing is, they already appear to be all there!

    There's only one transistor not populated, and it's also not populated on the '87, so not sure what it would be for.

    I mean heck, of the 8 '86 LMs I've seen recently, only 2 of them didn't have the TVS diodes on pin red-16 and red-20, and ALL of these were L-body modules (one was a GLHS module).

    Dude, I'll take anything you're willing to share! I think you still have my e-mail address. I did finally get up to speed with Ki-Cad.

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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo SOB View Post

    I did finally get up to speed with Ki-Cad.

    WOW, she sure is PRETTY!!!!!!
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  18. #18
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    This is alarming... I think I will switch the CSX to SBEC so I can carry a spare LM and PM in my Sundance DD until I have time to change it.
    Brian, could the issue be a corrupt EPROM, perhaps destroyed by cosmic rays??
    The chip in the last board that died was a SST27SF512. I socketed one of the new to me LMs, installed the same chip and the car now has hundreds of relatively trouble free miles on it. I think I'm just losing boards to old age. Nothing looks bad on them...

  19. #19
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    Here I am eatin' crow again.

    There's some pretty major differences between the '86 and the '87 TII style LMs, specifically in the EPROM area. The '86 has 2x 8k EPROMs and the '87 TII has 1x 16k EPROM and an EF6840 "programmable timer module". I have no idea what the timer module would do in an '87 that it wouldn't need to do in any other LM, but there it is, with some significant trace routing differences to accompany it. I did find a spec sheet for it, though the only place to find replacements is eBay. I guess one thing to try is to remove it and see if the '87 LM still works.

    Either way, I think my first priority should be to try to repair the dead '87 TII LM. If I can figure out what's wrong with it maybe others can benefit.


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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: WTB: 87 LMs

    I remember that from my Turbo II LM and was told by the man who gave it to me that they were peculiar to the TII engines (he referred to it as "Daytona Electronics".
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

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