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Thread: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

  1. #1
    boostaholic
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    89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Greetings all,
    Last night, I jumped in my van to leave a restaurant. As soon as I started to pull away I knew something was wrong. The engine was sputtering and didn't have much power under load. It ran enough at high RPM to limp it home, but I drove in 3rd gear (5 spd).
    I pulled over and swapped in my aftermarket HEP I had for years in the glove box, no change. I figured maybe the coil was getting weak. I swapped in a different coil, same problem. But today the van wouldn't start at one point after swapping back in the original Mopar HEP. So back in went the aftermarket one and it started right up, still behaving this way. Basically, the engine will stall or almost stall and come back on. The tach drops down to 1,000 or sometimes to 0 while under load. Does it at idle and while driving now. I also pulled code 3....

    I have a video of it running, but I don't know how to share it here....

  2. #2
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Ar you sure it was a code 3? That's strange to say the least. Is it a stock computer? It does sound like a HEP or ground problem.

  3. #3
    boostaholic
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Well, I may have mis counted. Looked up and there is no code three. BUT there IS code 11. I could have counted the initial bulb test at one blink, and the following two blinks as three consecutive blinks, instead of bulb test, one blink, one blink, five blinks, five blinks, which would be codes 11 and 55. I think 11 is HEP.

    Are the Mopar ones no longer available? Which HEP brand is reliable these days?

  4. #4
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    11 is no signal ever seen from the HEP by the computer. You must have reset your computer to get that.

    I've heard so many conflicting stories on the HEPs over the years, I don't know what to make of it. I generally just buy them from the parts store in the rare instance that I need one these days. I'm still going through all of the JY pieces I've picked up over the years. I don't have much of a problem with them, but that's me.

  5. #5
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee'sdaytona View Post
    Well, I may have mis counted. Looked up and there is no code three. BUT there IS code 11. I could have counted the initial bulb test at one blink, and the following two blinks as three consecutive blinks, instead of bulb test, one blink, one blink, five blinks, five blinks, which would be codes 11 and 55. I think 11 is HEP.

    Are the Mopar ones no longer available? Which HEP brand is reliable these days?
    I repair mine, they tend to break the wires at the edge of the dizzy. If you are handy at soldering, I will send you my repair link on this site.
    LMK
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    re aftermarket heps
    look for one with a soft rubber insolation on the wires
    it's going to have 2 small grouves in the insolation

    and the wires kinda look like small scale lamp cords

    I don't know what brand a hep like this would be in the states , sorry but I have had the same one and used in in every one of my Turbo 2.2's over ...what , I found it in '95-6 at the wreckers & put it in my pocket

    no clue how old it already was when I scooped it but still working today , 25-maybe 30 years later says everything you need to know

    up here they sold 'em at canadian tire

    it's now in <<<
    yep the dodge one in it when I bought it was dead

    dodge ones were garbage with their hard phone cord style insolation and the micro wires inside

  7. #7
    boostaholic
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Here is a link to the video of the behavior. At one point, key on, engine off, the fuel relay was clicking a lot. Could that indicate a bad relay or SBEC problem?

    https://youtu.be/2a2Uc2Cv944

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    When I had that on my T2 Lebaron it was apparently a bad SBEC. Question, shouldnt a 1989 be a SMEC?
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    My 89 Daytona did this for a while and it drove me out of my mind. It ended up being an issue with the 14-pin connector on the SMEC. Turns out the wire insulation likes to break right where the wires enter the connector. Check there, maybe move it around slightly with it running.
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
    2003 Neon SXT - gone but never forgotten

    Can't polish a turd? Sure you can! Just don't reuse the rag afterwards, dummy!

  10. #10
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Ok great I'll check this thanks. I guess it would be the SMEC, its been awhile since I've been on here, so my terms are fuzzy. I'll report back!

  11. #11
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    That looks like an intermittent open or short on a power or ground wire to the engine controller. First thing i'd do is wiggle wiring near the computer and see if you can trigger the issue that way. If nothing there might do a close visual inspection of the power and ground wires to the computer. If nothing there I might do a test light on the ignition feed to the computer (the wire that lets it know the key is on) and see if that ever flickers.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  12. #12
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    So I *think* I may have found the problem. The black relay closest to the driver's side shock tower controls the fuel pump I believe. When I wiggle that connector, I can get the engine to do what its doing. The wires themselves look in fine condition, but the spade connectors inside the black plug appear loose. Could this be a bad relay? The relay also has 4 tabs with the center fifth tab appearing to have broken clean off, or perhaps was never there. I forgot to look on the harness for 4 or 5 wires. Thoughts?
    -Lee

  13. #13
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Only 4 relay terminals used on these cars, although more than one wire may be crimped into each terminal. Sounds like you're on to something. Is it not the ASD relay?

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  14. #14
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    A Vigo stated, that should be the ASD relay. That would certainly cause the problem you describe.

  15. #15
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    As an experiment, I believe you can just shove a standard SPST relay in the existing harness. It won't be weatherproof, but it will definitely tell you if your factory relay is the issue. Get a good look at the terminals in the harness and the relay itself and make sure they're not corroded.
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
    2003 Neon SXT - gone but never forgotten

    Can't polish a turd? Sure you can! Just don't reuse the rag afterwards, dummy!

  16. #16
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Yes, the ASD relay. Can anyone confirm if its 4 or 5 wire?

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    It will be a 4 pin originally as the 87a (NC) contact is not used. I probably have a bunch of the weather shielded Chrysler ones from a couple of vans I stripped (one was a 1989). For test purposes, unless the 5th pin location is blocked and Bosch type relay will fit and work.
    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  18. #18
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Quote Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
    It will be a 4 pin originally as the 87a (NC) contact is not used. I probably have a bunch of the weather shielded Chrysler ones from a couple of vans I stripped (one was a 1989). For test purposes, unless the 5th pin location is blocked and Bosch type relay will fit and work.
    So isnt there a way I can jump a couple of wires at the plug to the relay, and make the pump run for test purposes? Then while its running, read the signal on the other signal wires coming from the computer to see if its a constant signal? Would that tell me if the relay is bad or the SMEC is bad? I don't mind buying a new relay, but throwing parts at a problem can get costly after awhile.

  19. #19
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor 85lebaront2's Avatar
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    Ok, if you look at the relay plug you will see a pin arrangement of pins like the picture, actual wiring to the relay may reverse the coil leads (85 & 86). Jump 30 to 87 to power the injectors, coil and fuel pump. To run the engine, the SMEC grounds one of the two relay coil connections, this is what first gives you the quick pump run pulse. If the SMEC does not receive a pulse from the HEP it will not re energize the relay. One of the relay coil terminals should be hot with the key on, the other, if you either use a test light or meter will show ground for a short time once the key is on, then go open. Once the SMEC receives it's signal from the HEP, it will ground that terminal again. Disregard the labels on the pins, just use the numbers and what I told you. FWIW, the test plug for the engine can also be used to activate the relay, on mine blue/yellow is the relay coil and black is ground.


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    "growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
    1986 Lebaron convertible to replace totalled 85
    1986 Ford F350 Crew Cab DRW
    1995 Lincoln Continental (project car)
    2011 Ford Flex Limited (wife's)

  20. #20
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    Re: 89 Turbo Van Bad HEP?

    That is great information, thank you, I'll try it as soon as I can get back to the van. I did pull a code 54 today. From what I can tell that could mean a bad HEP or wiring issue?

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