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Thread: 89 CSX No start when hot

  1. #1
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    89 CSX No start when hot

    This is car #42. It won't start when hot. It has spark, fuel pressure, and obviously air since it runs just fine when it's started cold. No codes at all.

    The hard parts:
    Ported two piece intake and head
    58mm TB
    TU fuel rail and AN lines going to Fuelab AFPR
    FWD performance, Forward Motion style B cover hybrid turbo
    2.5" exhaust
    Stock IC
    Socketed SBEC with custom cal scaled for 3 bar and 83lb. injectors which are installed in car.


    Things I've done to hopefully rectify the situation:
    Different SBEC with same chip.
    New wires
    New coil
    New fuel filter
    Different known good hep
    I upped the FP to see if it was vapor lock. Reset it back to 44PSI after it didn't do anything.

    The FP primes just fine when the problem occurs, so I think the SBEC is probably good. I'm at a bit of a loss on this. Any ideas?

  2. #2
    boostaholic
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    What does fuel pressure look like when it tries to start hot?

    I had trouble also with bigger injectors till I reset the latency in the program.

    Is the latency in the cal matching to the injectors installed?

  3. #3
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    I have not adjusted the latency at all. The fuel pressure is fine when hot, even when cranking from what I can see on the gauge. Anyone know the latency for the 83(?)lb injectors TU sells?

  4. #4
    boostaholic
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    I think Rob's spreadsheet has the Deka's listed. Should be the same injector and at least a place to start I think.

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...to-tune-for-it

  5. #5
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Thanks a ton. I'll adjust that and go from there.

  6. #6
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Actually, I can't seem to find where it's located. What section is the injector latency in? Also, should I just use the 13v figure based off of that spreadsheet, 12v, or split the difference?

  7. #7
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Actually, I can't seem to find where it's located. What section is the injector latency in? Also, should I just use the 13v figure based off of that spreadsheet, 12v, or split the difference?
    I can't remember, but it is either in fuel modifiers or fuel running or starting.
    It is called Battery Offset.
    Enter all the values for the different voltages as close as they can get. That may help.

    Another thing to try first, try cycling the key to Run a couple times as long as the pump still primed. Then try for a start.
    The injectors get a short prime to aid in starting.
    Also when cranking they should be getting some PW to aid in starting.
    It could also be the starting AIS steps when hot.

    I am having the reverse problem with the van. When I start, it fly's up to like 3000 rpm and then settles back. So I've been looking at these same tables to see if I can get that under control.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
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  8. #8
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    I can't remember, but it is either in fuel modifiers or fuel running or starting.
    It is called Battery Offset.
    Enter all the values for the different voltages as close as they can get. That may help.

    Another thing to try first, try cycling the key to Run a couple times as long as the pump still primed. Then try for a start.
    The injectors get a short prime to aid in starting.
    Also when cranking they should be getting some PW to aid in starting.
    It could also be the starting AIS steps when hot.

    I am having the reverse problem with the van. When I start, it fly's up to like 3000 rpm and then settles back. So I've been looking at these same tables to see if I can get that under control.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
    Thanks Wayne. I saw the fuelbatteryoffset table, but didn't realize it was the latency table.

    In regard to your issue, have you tried matching the AIS tables with those of the S60? I had the same problem in my CSX, but after adjusting the tables to match the S60, it's a lot better. I need to take them a step farther since I have the 58mm TB on there and we'll see how that goes.

  9. #9
    turbo addict
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    anyone running a 5spd should just plug the AIS hole off. give it 2-4 degrees of timing under 100 degree engine temp and go. The car will fire up and idle at 1100 then work down to idle settings as the engine warms up and the extra timing goes back to stock. You'll have to adjust your foot work a bit but it's so much better than stock IMO. Works in -5 degrees outside temp too.

  10. #10
    boostaholic
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    I set the latency based on a measured voltage during running. I've found some TM's voltage varies from car to car so I try get as close as possible. I setup a spreadsheet that did interpolation based on the provided numbers to get as close as possible to actual voltage.

  11. #11
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Thanks Wayne. I saw the fuelbatteryoffset table, but didn't realize it was the latency table.

    In regard to your issue, have you tried matching the AIS tables with those of the S60? I had the same problem in my CSX, but after adjusting the tables to match the S60, it's a lot better. I need to take them a step farther since I have the 58mm TB on there and we'll see how that goes.
    Thanks! I will try that as soon as I get the van back. I'm on a 58mm too.

    Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  12. #12
    turbo addict
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Something I ran across with the 58mm throttle body is the only port on the top of the TB is manifold vacuum. If you have your purge solenoid hooked up, it can pull the fuel tank into a vacuum and mess fuel trims. Either go back to a 52mm, or temporarily block off that port on the TB

  13. #13
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    anyone running a 5spd should just plug the AIS hole off. give it 2-4 degrees of timing under 100 degree engine temp and go. The car will fire up and idle at 1100 then work down to idle settings as the engine warms up and the extra timing goes back to stock. You'll have to adjust your foot work a bit but it's so much better than stock IMO. Works in -5 degrees outside temp too.
    I've thought about doing that many times, but I always have had good luck with the AIS. I'd like to attempt to fix this issue without taking it out. Yet...

  14. #14
    turbo addict
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    I just like it shut, I tried closing it all off electrically via the cal and it's still just not quite the same. But my statement was more directed at Wayne than you as he's really having an AIS issue. I'm interested to know if the latency fix fixes your issue. A friends van really didn't like to idle right when it was re-started hot. i didn't have access to it enough and he didn't know enough mess with it too much.

  15. #15
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    I just like it shut, I tried closing it all off electrically via the cal and it's still just not quite the same. But my statement was more directed at Wayne than you as he's really having an AIS issue. I'm interested to know if the latency fix fixes your issue. A friends van really didn't like to idle right when it was re-started hot. i didn't have access to it enough and he didn't know enough mess with it too much.
    I don't really want to clutter up Cordes' thread...
    But I logged the AIS steps on a start, and it was going to start with AIS at 160. It was way less when it was running and idling normally (and I forget the exact number, maybe 26-36 or something @ 1200 rpm)
    I'm going to mess with it more once I have the van back.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  16. #16

    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    No start at all or hard start? My car has an issue with hard start after running, but it will start after about 10 seconds. Haven't tried swapping the throttle body or fuel pump, but I smell fuel so I don't think that is an issue. I have swapped all items you listed.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  17. #17
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    No start at all. Itís like the car isnít getting a hep signal but itís plugged in. IívE tried different known working units and I get the same results.

  18. #18
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: 89 CSX No start when hot

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    No start at all. Itís like the car isnít getting a hep signal but itís plugged in. IívE tried different known working units and I get the same results.
    I've had the wires on the engine side of the hep connectors break just like the little wires do on the hep side of the connector

    - right at the back of the plug

    this can lead to a frustrating and fruitless pursuit of a good hep pick up...as you can figure

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