Probably pretty preposterous van project

[moparman76_69]

Figured I'd start a thread for the van if for nothing more than motivation to do work. I'll make this a teaser post

First the van in question:



Next the engine for said van:



But wait what's that you say? That isn't a 2.5? Why yes it is a 2.4.

I have a SRT oil pan and pump for it:



Here is the head:



Hey aren't those exhaust ports on the front of the head? Yes as a matter of fact they are, it's a 420A head.

Next would be the new K frame:



What's that little bump in the center you ask? Hold your horses I'm getting there.

Next are the CV axles:



Huh? Why are there 4? Well why else?

That's right AWD:






Stay tuned this should be a good one.

UPDATE:

I'll be adding links to important posts at the bottom of this original post to make for easier reference.

AWD diff in a 523: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...l=1#post923190

[ShelGame]

Subscribed...

[cordes]

In for the progress.

[turbovanman²]

Awesome, should be fun. I guess you bought that header?

[moparman76_69]

Subscribed...

Cool!

In for the progress.

I need all the motivation I can get.

Awesome, should be fun. I guess you bought that header?

Yep. I was going to run the log style OBX but figured I'd go all in and run the equal length.

I'll post up more info about the motor tomorrow afternoon sometime.

[ShelGame]

What trans you going to run? A604?

[86seeS]

Itll be slow but Im subscribed

[moparman76_69]

What trans you going to run? A604?

I plan on using the 523 in the van already but have kicked around the Idea of going auto since it'd be easier to adapt the awd to an auto.

Itll be slow but Im subscribed

It's faster than any of your stuff as it sits

[Mopar318]

I plan on using the 523 in the van already but have kicked around the Idea of going auto since it'd be easier to adapt the awd to an auto.



It's faster than any of your stuff as it sits

I was just about to say that! There is a 2nd gen AWD van in the yard here if you need any parts.

[RoadWarrior222]

In for teh lulz.... I mean progress.

[phoebegoesvroom]

Hoo boy this looks like it's going to be fun. Subscribed!

[ShelGame]

I plan on using the 523 in the van already but have kicked around the Idea of going auto since it'd be easier to adapt the awd to an auto.

I asked 'cause if you were going auto, it would be a clone of the idea I had for my red Daytona before I gave up. I still have the '424a' engine on my stand, though. Complete with intake and treadstone cast exhaust manifold. I was going to simply use 2.5 T1 pistons and rods (I already had a set of 0.02" over Mahles). They are surprisingly similar to the Mexican Stratus Turbo pistons/rods. Check it out -

My engine : http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...l=1#post836657
Stratus R/T Piston/Rod compared to the 2.5 T1 : http://www.gtneon.com/turbo%202.4L/assembly01.html

[moparman76_69]

In for teh lulz.... I mean progress.

Yeah there will be lulz.

Hoo boy this looks like it's going to be fun. Subscribed!

Hopefully I bleed enough early on to appease the turbo dodge gods before I get to the difficult part.

I asked 'cause if you were going auto, it would be a clone of the idea I had for my red Daytona before I gave up. I still have the '424a' engine on my stand, though. Complete with intake and treadstone cast exhaust manifold. I was going to simply use 2.5 T1 pistons and rods (I already had a set of 0.02" over Mahles). They are surprisingly similar to the Mexican Stratus Turbo pistons/rods. Check it out -

My engine : http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...l=1#post836657
Stratus R/T Piston/Rod compared to the 2.5 T1 : http://www.gtneon.com/turbo 2.4L/assembly01.html

I was hoping you'd get that project done so I could let you make the mistakes for me. That and I wanted to see if you could work out the 604 before I committed to a transmission. Wish I'd seen that info on the T1 stuff. I thought machining was required to use them. I have a set of srt pistons and rods. Apparently the trick to using them is to mount the piston on the rod backwards.

[turbovanman²]

Wish I'd seen that info on the T1 stuff. I thought machining was required to use them. I have a set of srt pistons and rods. Apparently the trick to using them is to mount the piston on the rod backwards.

The SRT dished pistons sit in the hole aprox .010"-.015" in our engines, I've mocked it up before and when I redo mine in May, I am using SRT pistons, dirt cheap over at the SRT forums. Using 2.5 pistons, they will stick out of the hole or flush in a 2.4 block.

Makes sense you turn them around, as the valves are switched, lol.

[ShelGame]

I was hoping you'd get that project done so I could let you make the mistakes for me. That and I wanted to see if you could work out the 604 before I committed to a transmission. Wish I'd seen that info on the T1 stuff. I thought machining was required to use them. I have a set of srt pistons and rods. Apparently the trick to using them is to mount the piston on the rod backwards.

I really wanted to do it, but I don't have enough time and money for 2 projects and I really wanted to get the race car to where it can win races next year. Besides, like you, I thought it would be easier and more fun with a van. Maybe I can get my maroon van back next summer and start doing something like this with it.

Well, the deck does need to be cut down to use the 2.5 T1 pistons/rods. Other wise the compression is like 7.0:1. I calculated that if I cut the deck 0.06" (there seems to be more than enough to do this on the 2.4 block) that the 2.5 T1 pistons would be flush with the deck and I would have an 8.0:1 compression without cutting the head, and I actually planned to deck the head like 0.005" to clean it up.

There are 2 problems with the SRT piston as I see it -

1) mounting it backwards fixes the valve clearance issue with the 420a head, but it will probably rattle like a mofo when cold because the pistons are usually setup with 0.5-1.0mm offset to the thrust side specifically to reduce piston rock. When you reverse the pistons, you add the offset in the wrong direction (the noisy direction). Just a thought.

2) The 'ski-slope' crowns apparently want a ton of timing. So much that it seems like it would be too much, but apparently isn't. Not a big deal, I guess, as the SRT timing is/was posted in the KC. But, the 2.5 T1 pistons (dish type) give a more 'normal' timing curve.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

Using 2.5 pistons, they will stick out of the hole or flush in a 2.4 block.

No they don't. 2.5 T1 pistons+rods are 0.06" in the hole on a 2.4 block with 2.4 crank. The 2.4 stroke is 3mm less than the 2.5 (101 vs. 104mm), and the 2.4 and CB have the same deck height, so it makes perfect sense that they are 0.06" in the hole (half the stroke difference).

[Turbo224]

Definitely need to subscribe to this one, although I expect this project to be completed within the year.

[turbovanman²]

I really wanted to do it, but I don't have enough time and money for 2 projects and I really wanted to get the race car to where it can win races next year. Besides, like you, I thought it would be easier and more fun with a van. Maybe I can get my maroon van back next summer and start doing something like this with it.

Well, the deck does need to be cut down to use the 2.5 T1 pistons/rods. Other wise the compression is like 7.0:1. I calculated that if I cut the deck 0.06" (there seems to be more than enough to do this on the 2.4 block) that the 2.5 T1 pistons would be flush with the deck and I would have an 8.0:1 compression without cutting the head, and I actually planned to deck the head like 0.005" to clean it up.

There are 2 problems with the SRT piston as I see it -

1) mounting it backwards fixes the valve clearance issue with the 420a head, but it will probably rattle like a mofo when cold because the pistons are usually setup with 0.5-1.0mm offset to the thrust side specifically to reduce piston rock. When you reverse the pistons, you add the offset in the wrong direction (the noisy direction). Just a thought.

2) The 'ski-slope' crowns apparently want a ton of timing. So much that it seems like it would be too much, but apparently isn't. Not a big deal, I guess, as the SRT timing is/was posted in the KC. But, the 2.5 T1 pistons (dish type) give a more 'normal' timing curve.

Don't use the ski jump pistons and 90% sure the pistons aren't offset. If you look at them, the skirt is the same thickness on both sides and the only reason for orientation is the valve reliefs.

No they don't. 2.5 T1 pistons+rods are 0.06" in the hole on a 2.4 block with 2.4 crank. The 2.4 stroke is 3mm less than the 2.5 (101 vs. 104mm), and the 2.4 and CB have the same deck height, so it makes perfect sense that they are 0.06" in the hole (half the stroke difference).

Hmmmm, interesting, guess I did the math wrong. Good info for future use. Are you sure they have the same deck height, I did some digging and found it wasn't, but that was awhile ago.

[ShelGame]

If you look at them, the skirt is the same thickness on both sides and the only reason for orientation is the valve reliefs.

Not the skirt, the pin bore is offset in the piston usually by 0.5-1.0mm. Too small to see, you'd have to measure (and it's hard to measure). It's only done to reduce piston slap. But, it does increase the friction. Aftermarket racing pistons usually do not offset the pin due to the friction.

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

Hmmmm, interesting, guess I did the math wrong. Good info for future use. Are you sure they have the same deck height, I did some digging and found it wasn't, but that was awhile ago.

I don't have my notes up, but I found they were exactly the same deck.

[moparman76_69]

Definitely need to subscribe to this one, although I expect this project to be completed within the year.

I hope to be at SDAC with it.

Called the dealer and ordered new bedplate bolts. Called a place locally that does coatings about getting thermal barrier on the crowns and dry film on the skirts. The srt pistons have a coating on the skirt already but they are scuffed. Went by the garage on my way home and painted the block. Also got out all the parts and took an inventory of what else I need. I'm pretty much good to go except for a couple of seals and an o-ring. My plan for this weekend is to get the crank in and bolted up and get the oil pump, water pump and stuff like that on while I wait for the pistons. That and I plan on getting the blown up 8v and trans out of the van.

[turbovanman²]

Not the skirt, the pin bore is offset in the piston usually by 0.5-1.0mm. Too small to see, you'd have to measure (and it's hard to measure). It's only done to reduce piston slap. But, it does increase the friction. Aftermarket racing pistons usually do not offset the pin due to the friction.

I know that, but usually they make one skirt thicker to handle the offset loads. I seriously doubt ours are offset, most 4 cylinders aren't due to the straight up and down loading.

I don't have my notes up, but I found they were exactly the same deck.

No worries, if you dig it up, that would be great.