Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Intermediate shaft machining

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Garrett booster
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    247

    Intermediate shaft machining

    I have decided to go ahead and give the 555 "Honda bearing mod" a try. I've been fishing around the local machine shops and have gotten an overall cool reception to machining the intermediate shaft.

    Only shop I found that was willing to try to machine the intermediate shaft says he would "grind" it. I would have assumed it would be better to just turn it on a lathe with a ceramic insert given it only needs about 6 thou removed.

    Just looking for thoughts on this from those have a better grasp of machining case hardened parts as I am no expert. These shafts aren't overly plentiful so I would prefer it be done right.

  2. #2
    Hybrid booster
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Jacksonville
    Posts
    411

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    I would look into having it re hardened. or at least bake it a while and drop it in some oil a few times.

  3. #3
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hazelwood, MO
    Posts
    6,566

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    I agree...look into having it re-hardened (induction hardening...like a cam maybe?) or having DLC applied to it, which I've been considering for a while now.

  4. #4
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,772

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    what about nitriding it ?

    it ALL you have to do to make the 75# 460 cast crank good for 800 hp-8 second door slammers...and that was the new thing 35 years ago

  5. #5
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hazelwood, MO
    Posts
    6,566

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    what about nitriding it ?

    it ALL you have to do to make the 75# 460 cast crank good for 800 hp-8 second door slammers...and that was the new thing 35 years ago
    I would think it would be harder to find a company to throw a single part into their nitride furnace than to get it induction hardened or coated.

  6. #6
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,772

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    - just a thought - really depends on what's doable locally & how

    I've seen "the cabinet" .. somewhat larger than a blasting cabinet but not much

    I'd think they probably do things in little batches so there would probably be a wait

    a crank , couple of somethin shafts , someone's gear parts , a handful of ford oil pump hex-drive shafts (junk) maybe someone's shortened distributor shaft .. Idono

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Garrett booster
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    247

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Ok so I talked to a couple shops about hardening.

    First shop said that all the previous hardening would need to be machined off before they would harden it and said if the shaft hadn't been hardened by nitriding originally it cant be now. I asked how he felt it had probably been hardened at the factory and he offered nothing but a laugh. Moving on...

    Next shop seemed more helpful. He wants to check the hardness before and after machining but feels that it will probably still be about the same given we really aren't removing much material. He also said he knew a few shops that could easily handle the machine work. If the hardness wasn't good enough to just induction harden the bearing surface, not the whole shaft (which he could not do, but could recommend a shop that could). He felt if the entire shaft were done it may become brittle. and also no longer straight. I will stop by with the shaft next week and he can have a look at it.

  9. #9
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,772

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    that sounds positive - please keep us in the loop

  10. #10
    Garrett booster
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    247

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Latest update,

    Had the heat treat guy look at the shaft. He figures there isnt much that can be done with it. It would be very difficult to just heat treat the bearing surface without affecting the gear beside it in a negative way. He felt the shaft would get brittle in the heat affected zone of the gear.

    He did a test and found the shaft to be 55-63 rockwell hardness depending on the location of the bearing surface on the shaft.

    Finally found someone willing to machine it. Older guy in a small machine shop. He has a friend with a "cylindical grinder" and as long as I wasn't in a big hurry, he could get it done for me. Other shops said they would do it but I had to buy the tooling, which apparently would be $300 plus the shop time to turn it.

    Heat treat guy said bring it back once it was done and he would check hardness again.

  11. #11
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hazelwood, MO
    Posts
    6,566

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    WOW! 55-63RW is SOFT for steel! No wonder it galls so easily!

    I wonder if we could have sleeves machined, then hardened to press on like the 523/543/568?

  12. #12
    Garrett booster
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    247

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    WOW! 55-63RW is SOFT for steel! No wonder it galls so easily!
    Can you explain this? I looked up bearing race hardness, and the mighty Google says 60 RC is about right. Also keep in mind this was with a small handheld tester.

    Im thinking about sleeving also. Not sure if I should bother turning it down 60 thou and checking the hardness, or just bite the bullet and see if it can have a sleeve installed.

    And then there is the modification Gaboon did......used the internal race of the bearing he bought. don't really want to get into welding up the case though.

  13. #13
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    1,772

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    what's the trans again ?

    re welding the case .. 555's have a heat treated case , 520's do not

    then there's actually welding the case , how good is "the guy" , how badly saturated is the case with oil etc = last resort (imo)

    a welded hardened sleeve sounds like a plan .. or a parts transmission collection

  14. #14
    Garrett booster
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    247

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    what's the trans again ?

    re welding the case .. 555's have a heat treated case , 520's do not

    then there's actually welding the case , how good is "the guy" , how badly saturated is the case with oil etc = last resort (imo)

    a welded hardened sleeve sounds like a plan .. or a parts transmission collection
    ....yep.

    I have a 555. Here is the thread about the welded tranny case...I assume it was a 555. PMed him the other day and he said he ran the tranny a few years with no problems
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-shaft-bearing

  15. #15
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hazelwood, MO
    Posts
    6,566

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Quote Originally Posted by 83rampage View Post
    Can you explain this? I looked up bearing race hardness, and the mighty Google says 60 RC is about right.
    I expected to see numbers in the higher 60's. Based on your research, it looks like my expectations were a bit high!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    what's the trans again ?

    re welding the case .. 555's have a heat treated case , 520's do not
    I know this has been debated for a long time. Is there any actual indication of this?

  16. #16
    Hybrid booster
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    eagleville pa
    Posts
    845

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    I expected to see numbers in the higher 60's. Based on your research, it looks like my expectations were a bit high!



    I know this has been debated for a long time. Is there any actual indication of this?
    none whats so ever, the case part numbers back in the day were the same between the 2 transmissions and were cast at the same place.

  17. #17
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,624

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    The only way to fix it so it lasts is to have a race made and attached to the shaft. People have tried cutting, grinding, welding etc. It does not hold up and fails in a short amount of time.

  18. #18
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sherwood Park Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    1,640

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Post by moparracer 35.

    Thanks
    Randy


    https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...mission-2.html

    https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...-repaired.html



    Here is a thread on how to repair worn intermediate shafts.
    !. Shaft has to be turned to bushing size 1.190 by either grinding or using ceramic tooling on lathe. Shaft is hardened.
    2. Press fit bearing sleeve with Locktite.
    3.Tig weld onto shaft end ( 3 spots).
    4. Turn to size 1.400 by either grinding or using ceramic tooling. Bearing sleeves are 65 rockwell (bearing steel) which is very hard.
    5.Finish polish with 2000 paper.

    I have repaired 4 of these and run tested with no problems. On the original shaft the hard surface is thin and uneven. The sleeve I used .105 thick after turning and hardened all the way through. It could be replaced again if ever needed. This is not an involved process but it is time consuming. Maybe this will save some of transaxles that are becoming harder and harder to find. This process does a beautiful job and is very durable and you can keep your original shaft from your transaxle.

    Since I made these pictures I invested in ceramic tooling that makes the job faster and easier. When you use ceramic tooling you get a red string of metal off the hardened material. This eliminated the grinding process. I don't like grinding on the lathe because of the grit on the lathe ways. The pictures are on another post I made 9-10-15


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

  19. #19
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,624

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    That’s the way to fix them. Good write up. Do you have a source or part number for the sleeve?

  20. #20
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sherwood Park Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    1,640

    Re: Intermediate shaft machining

    Sorry, no, I just remembered this thread from a while back.

    I was hoping someone knew more than me.

    Thanks
    Randy

    Quote Originally Posted by ajakeski View Post
    That’s the way to fix them. Good write up. Do you have a source or part number for the sleeve?


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Intermediate Shaft and Bolt Weights (aka oil pump drive shaft or aux shaft)
    By Reeves in forum Engine - Block, Piston, Heads, Intakes
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-09-2011, 11:06 AM
  2. Auxiliary Shaft/Intermediate Shaft Question
    By Reeves in forum Engine - Block, Piston, Heads, Intakes
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 08-05-2010, 02:07 PM
  3. NEED to buy Intermediate Shaft
    By Darkapollo in forum Parts Wanted
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-23-2007, 10:46 PM
  4. Intermediate Shaft
    By WOP'R in forum 16v Factory Engines
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-22-2007, 01:51 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •