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Thread: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

  1. #1
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    I decided to change how I had my boost control hooked to vacuum. I was getting vacuum from a "T" on the intake manifold. (This "T" also is connected to the brake booster.)
    Into this hose an I installed another "T" which has two more hoses attached to it, one of which goes to the mechanical wastegate control which continued to the waste gate can. The second hose went to the pcv which was attached to the valve cover spigot. As I thought it worked, vacuum closes the pcv and holds the wastegate closed at the same time. When boost gets high enough it opens the wastegate. I wondered if the pcv opening caused a poor signal at the can because boost is also pressurizing the crankcase.

    I isolated my boost control directly to the spigot coming from the intake by the fuel rail, so it is on the same circuit as the map sensor, boost gauge and fuel pressure regulator. So I tested it this morning. Boost went to 14 psi, indicating to me that previous readings might be wrong because it never went hat high before but when it got to that point everything, apparently fuel and spark, abruptly quit. I figured, OK its going into over boost. I went back to my garage and changed the boost control to less spring pressure. tested again, same thing. I put the weakest spring in the boost control, screwed it way out for least pressure, same thing. Another condition was that I didn't have my laptop hooked up to the ostrich. That shouldn't make any difference, the tune is on the Ostrich but I went out hooked it up, tested, same thing. 12 psi...shutoff.
    I verified that all vacuum lines were properly connected. Also the port on the "T" left open I capped with a rubber plug.

    Maybe the control needs to be installed on the throttle body spigot. Should the boost control ball and seat be pointed at the wastegate can?
    I'm stumped,
    Jeff
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  2. #2
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    I put everything back the way it was and it worked properly again. I also tried taking vacuum off the throttle body, that worked as well.
    I hope someone can explain this to me. It doesn't make sense.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  3. #3
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    Not sure what kind of boost controller but, Yes, you are correct having the laptop connected to the Ostrich makes no difference as the program is on the Ostrich.

  4. #4
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    I have a grainger valve.

    It started to do this again so I Ran an MPscan, boost going all the way to 14.7 and likely beyond. I suspect that somehow the wastegate can is hanging the waste gate shut. Have to wait till its cool to be able to reach under there and check the rod movement.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  5. #5
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    hook up a air spray nozzle.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/pistol...gun-63568.html
    to a regulator
    https://www.harborfreight.com/150-ps...uge-68223.html

    set it to about 20 PSI. and hit the wastegate with the air.

    you should be able to see and feel the rod move.

  6. #6
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    I have since put back everything along with putting the weakest spring into the Grainger valve. It doesn't over boost but runs at about 11psi and holds so the can is good. I just don't understand why, all of a sudden it became so sensitive to spring strength. I had the black spring in it before which is longer and stiffer than the yellow spring have in it now. Mistifying.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  7. #7
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    The ball in the grainger faces the side that is connected to the vacuum. The spring side is connected to the wastegate (and ideally a small vent). That way boost pressure pushes the ball that compresses the spring and when boost overcomes the spring tension, pressure is sent to open the wastegate.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    With an LM, can I turn off the over boost function? I do have my grainger installed correctly and it has a vent.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  9. #9
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    You can raise the limit. There should be a section in the cal about overboost. Look at the values and in the description should help tell you which one to change. Set it to a psi value well before you run out of fuel.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1234 View Post
    I have since put back everything along with putting the weakest spring into the Grainger valve. It doesn't over boost but runs at about 11psi and holds so the can is good. I just don't understand why, all of a sudden it became so sensitive to spring strength. I had the black spring in it before which is longer and stiffer than the yellow spring have in it now. Mistifying.

    Uh, have you CLEANED you Granger? I've had several go erratic over the years. CLeaning with TB or carb cleaner fixes them.

    BTW, it should be a SHORT DEDICATED vacuum/boost source that isn't shared.

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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  11. #11
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    I looked for that before but somehow missed it. Does increasing the number raise the the overboost point?
    Thanks
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  12. #12
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    That last sentence caught my attention, particularly the SHORT DEDICATED. I will definitely change that, at present I had it back on the hose to the valve cover. The most obvious is one of the ports on the throttle body, the question is which is best to use. I think they are both behind the throttle plate. I had planned to check out the bleed hole to verify that it wasn't plugged as well.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1234 View Post
    That last sentence caught my attention, particularly the SHORT DEDICATED. I will definitely change that, at present I had it back on the hose to the valve cover. The most obvious is one of the ports on the throttle body, the question is which is best to use. I think they are both behind the throttle plate. I had planned to check out the bleed hole to verify that it wasn't plugged as well.

    See where the large vacuum source goes into the brake booster? There usually is a capped off barb on the check valve the hose connects to, I've used that one many times.

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
    My profile page has over 20,000 views, I'm somebody LOL

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    Mitsu booster
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1234 View Post
    I looked for that before but somehow missed it. Does increasing the number raise the the overboost point?
    Thanks
    Yes. The number is the psi where over boost cutout starts. So if you set it for 13psi then overboost will happen at 13psi. I'm not sure which LM cal version your working with but it probably is under "OB, Speed, and Rev Limiter" the value "OverboostFuelShutoffEnablePointFromMap_Timer" .

    Bringing the car to Jackson's on the 25th?

    Jeff Chojnacki
    87 LeBaron 2.2 T2
    88 Caravan 5-spd 2.2 T2

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    Jeff, Yes, I will be at Jackson's with the car. I found overboost and sure enough it was set at 13.29 psi. My scans showed me 13.3, so that was the problem. I would like to talk with you at Jackson's and pick you brain about your tuning experiences about this and other subjects.
    Thanks again!
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  16. #16
    turbo addict
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    There's 2 damn overboost settings in at least the 87 Turbo2 code. That one got me for a while.

    So you're using the grainger valve with all the different springs huh? I have one. Never used it as the normal one has always works for me. I do have a couple "Normal" ones that have a spring that doesn't release till 21psi. Be good for a diesel

  17. #17
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    Glhnslht2, hmmm, I have the 87 T2 LM in my car. What's the story on the two different settings. Where are they located? I have found one location. As far as the spring thing I will probably go back to the black spring although It is somewhat of a mystery as to why I had boosted to 13.3 so many times without over boost and then a Change of hose location suddenly everything goes wacky. Weird.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

  18. #18
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    The PCV valve probably isn't air tight. I wouldn't use that as a vac/boost source. The actuation level at the grainger will be different depending on where you have it getting it's source from. Off the turbo comp housing will be different than directly off the intake manifold.

    As for the 2nd spot it's been so long since I've messed with any calibrating that I couldn't tell you where it was. But it's there. I set each one I could find to 14.7 or FF which shuts it off. With a stock garrett on the car I could set the boost level at 14.5psi and the ECU would control it like a grainger valve was on the car. As soon as I went to a S60 turbo the ECU couldn't control it anymore

  19. #19
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jeff1234's Avatar
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    Re: abrupt momentary shut off of engine

    I've got a hybrid so probably best to stick with grainger. See you on the 25th.
    The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars, how fast can you afford to go?

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