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Thread: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    I'm no newb when it comes to these cars, but I have had some real ---- luck with cars lately and I don't even have one anymore. I'm relying on the work/plow truck from my job which really sucks, but at least there is that.

    My CSRT got smashed by a drunk/hit-and-run about 2 months ago..
    Then my Buick Regal GS died (no spark or fuel apparently)
    Now my gold Omni GLH Turbo died on the way to work this morning.

    I've pulled the codes and only got a 43 and 55 (/end). Apparently the ignition coil failed. I went to NAPA to get a new one, and it didn't fix it. I found a spare HEP and tried that, but no dice. It had a crack in it, so I went back to NAPA to get a new one. The closest one they could find was in Louisiana (!) and it will take over a week to get here. I would pull the one out of my Shelby Lancer, but with the Masi 16v in it, it would be an absolute nightmare to get that in and out.

    So I'm thinking it must have blown a fuse link, but they all look good. *Look* good anyway, I'll have to get my multimeter out to be sure. The only other thing I can think of is a possible ASD relay failure. I think that is hard-wired into the power module though.

    Is there anything I'm missing? I hooked up a timing light to the coil wire and don't get any flash with the old or new coil, old or (even older?) HEP.




    After all that, I finally gave up and had it towed home (-$80). I had to walk the rest of the way to work in 5' weather. It's been so cold out that working on cars is nearly impossible right now or downright painful. I thought of maybe a timing belt failure, but it sounds like it cranks over normally.....not the electric motor sound when only the bottom end spins.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    check the HEPS with a multi meter? put the original back it, it may have healed by now. fuel pressure?
    1988 Lancer Shelby 2.2TII 1989 Shadow ES 2.5TI 1992 Lebaron Sedan 3.0Auto 1993 Acclaim 2.5TI-A520 Hoard parts now!

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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by raccoon View Post
    check the HEPS with a multi meter? put the original back it, it may have healed by now. fuel pressure?
    Do you have a procedure for this? I have used both a scope and logic analyzer but I am unsure with a meter.
    I assume with a good meter you should see it bounce from zero to 8-9 Volts or so . 5 pulses on each HEP for every 720 degrees of crank rotation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    Is there anything I'm missing?
    Code 43 can also be due to blown transistors in your PM that drives the coil.
    http://minimopar.net/fault/code43.html
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    two things to check FIRST when log motor fails to start

    ground strap from fuel rail to firewall

    ground terminal on transmission with dinky little wire - near reverse switch

    both result in cranking and cranking with no hope..

    little ground wire on the trans burned my backside for a couple of weeks ...once

  5. #5
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    two things to check FIRST when log motor fails to start

    ground strap from fuel rail to firewall

    ground terminal on transmission with dinky little wire - near reverse switch

    both result in cranking and cranking with no hope..

    little ground wire on the trans burned my backside for a couple of weeks ...once


    Thanks guys, I will check all those. I don't have a scope though. I'm sure I have another power module around here somewheres.

    Also, I forgot about that little ground wire with the huge lug (brown/yellow) on the trans bell housing. I think that is the ground for the starter relay though, so I'm not even sure it would crank over. I will definitely check that anyway.
    Last edited by iTurbo; 02-20-2019 at 11:05 PM.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Sorry to hear about your CSRT.

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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Do you have a procedure for this? I have used both a scope and logic analyzer but I am unsure with a meter.
    I assume with a good meter you should see it bounce from zero to 8-9 Volts or so . 5 pulses on each HEP for every 720 degrees of crank rotation.
    I would compare two parts. hoping for the similar values. might find something open then it would be obvious
    1988 Lancer Shelby 2.2TII 1989 Shadow ES 2.5TI 1992 Lebaron Sedan 3.0Auto 1993 Acclaim 2.5TI-A520 Hoard parts now!

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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    I thought of maybe a timing belt failure, but it sounds like it cranks over normally.....not the electric motor sound when only the bottom end spins.
    It could have still jumped a few teeth. In fact, that just happened to one or our local members on his Shelby Lancer. Nothing made sense, everything "worked" but no go. The intermediate shaft had jumped enough teeth to make the distributor rotor line up almost backwards, and the belt looked perfectly fine. He put a new belt on anyways and it runs great now.

  9. #9
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    My Omni started right up this morning like nothing was ever wrong! I still only get code 43.

    Here is the fault code description from minimopar.net

    Synopsis

    Description: Ignition coil driver circuit open or shorted.
    Power loss light: Off
    Limp-in mode: None

    Possible Causes

    Bad connection or wiring - Check the wiring and connections between the ignition coil and the power module (or SMEC). Clean and regrease any corroded connectors with dielectric grease and repair any shorts.
    Ignition coil driver transistor failure - Replace the power module (or SMEC).

    Ignition coil failure - Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance of the primary ignition coil between the two small stud on the top of the coil. It should measure about 0 ohms.


    Diagnostic Method

    Trigger Parameters

    - Near 0V or near 12V not detected when the coil is turned on or off, respectively
    Results If Component Fails

    Fault code 43 is stored and the engine will stall.


    I haven't touched it since replacing the ignition coil and trying another used HEP. Right now it has the new coil from NAPA and the same HEP the car was using before. I would think if the HEP was at fault, I would get a code 11 but I haven't seen that. I have a new one on the way from NAPA so at least I'll have a spare soon. I'm thinking this looks more like an intermittent connection in the wire harness. Hopefully with it running I can wiggle/move the harness and find it that way.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    You'll only get a code 11 if the computer has never seen a HEP signal.

  11. #11
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    You'll only get a code 11 if the computer has never seen a HEP signal.
    Ah, I did not realize that! I will try disconnecting the battery for a while if/when it acts up and see if the code 11 sets then.

    I don't dare drive it away from my house until I at least have a new HEP here.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    I tried another test just now. I went out to my Omni, and sure enough it won't start again. I haven't done anything to it since it started this morning and was idling fine....

    Since it didn't start, I disconnected the battery for a while. I went back out to the car and reconnected it. It still wouldn't start. *Now* I get 12-43-55 for codes. The 12 is new since I disconnected the battery for a bit. Still no code 11 (HEP signal). And the 43 came back right away (still no start).

    This is looking like the HEP is OK, but there is a problem in the ignition coil driver circuit or Z1 feed that feeds power to the ignition coil/injectors/O2 heater/fuel pump. Next I'm going to hook up a fuel pressure gauge and see if I even have fuel pressure to rule out the Z1 feed. (green/black wire).

    EDIT: Plenty of fuel pressure while cranking and still no-start. 55-60 psi. I had to remove the schrader valve core on the fuel rail to hook up my gauge, so the fuel pump is most definitely getting power. Aside from trying another PM, tracing the ignition coil driver circuit (- side of ignition coil), I'm thinking of making a jumper wire to connect it directly to the PM's ignition coil driver output pin to see if that will wake it up.
    Last edited by iTurbo; 02-23-2019 at 08:06 PM.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    I swapped out the power module with a spare I had and it fires right up now.

    Still a little nervous about driving it until I have a new HEP on hand, but it looks like that was it. First power module failure I've ever had. Chromguy wins!
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    I was thinking it might not hurt to pull the top half of the timing cover, bump the motor around and check for a "bald" spot on the belt
    I really doubt it slipped until it started again , but..

    power module
    lol
    I dropped the hood shut on my 86 daytona one night
    fortunately I simply turned around and sat at the desk I had right in front of the car
    about 30 seconds later I smell electrical fire smoke
    ...POURING out from behind the headlights

    yep
    something flaked out in my power module right then and there
    just glad I didn't turn and go in the house (attached)

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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    Still a little nervous about driving it until I have a new HEP on hand
    I would recommend you install the new HEP just to be sure it works as there is lots of aftermarket crap out there
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I would recommend you install the new HEP just to be sure it works as there is lots of aftermarket crap out there
    Definitely. I wish I could get a new Mopar one, but I think they are all aftermarket these days. I don't want to chance it until I least have a phillips screwdriver and a good spare HEP in the glovebox.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    man, you guys and I couldn't be more opposite when it comes to the oem heps

    I HATE them
    original source of the entire hep issue is the hard coating on the wires

    I've used the SAME aftermarket hep in every car (4 now) since I pinched it used at the wreckers and stuck it in my pocket in ... 1995...

    hell it's in my charger right now as it wouldn't start when I bought it 3 years ago
    because of the o-e hep

    came from canadian tire new

    hell I've always tossed the o-e ones because I know they're gonna fail

  18. #18
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    I wouldn't doubt that the Mopar unit being superior is no longer the case or maybe never was. I bought a new HEP from Rock Auto for my old black GLH Turbo. It uses an '85 unit, and it was the only place I could even find it! If I remember right, it was an Airtex/Wells unit and it has been fine for years.

    Also, I just noticed that Rock Auto caries A-1 Cardone '86-up reman distributors that *include* the turbo HEP for a whole $18.59, no core required. I picked up that and a United Motor Products "tune-up kit" that includes a cap/rotor/wires and now I'll have a complete spare distributor for less than $40.
    87 Shelby Lancer #127
    91 Dodge Spirit R/T
    08 Dodge Caliber SRT-4
    86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

  19. #19
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    I've only had 2-3 HEPS actually fail on me in the entire time I've owned TMs. That's closing in on two decades now. At the same time, it was just recently that someone posted up a file showing an oscilloscope reading which showed that an aftermarket unit did indeed put out a different pattern than a stock one. I've used both with excellent results.

  20. #20
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    Re: Omni GLH Turbo suddenly dead

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    I wouldn't doubt that the Mopar unit being superior is no longer the case or maybe never was. I bought a new HEP from Rock Auto for my old black GLH Turbo. It uses an '85 unit, and it was the only place I could even find it! If I remember right, it was an Airtex/Wells unit and it has been fine for years.

    Also, I just noticed that Rock Auto caries A-1 Cardone '86-up reman distributors that *include* the turbo HEP for a whole $18.59, no core required. I picked up that and a United Motor Products "tune-up kit" that includes a cap/rotor/wires and now I'll have a complete spare distributor for less than $40.
    Jeremy, Be careful using Cardone reman'ed stuff. I've seen some awfully shady parts come from Cardone. So bad if fact, in one case the reman'ed replacement part was WAY worse than the part I was taking off! For spare parts, I guess but beware. I would love to take apart that distributor (removing shaft etc.) and see what It looks like.
    Todd

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