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Thread: Head Porting

  1. #121
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    Re: Head Porting

    Don you can also use a good synthetic grease on your bits and sanding rolls. This makes your carbide bits and abrasives less aggressive and helps bits with heat. Any grease will do, I use a Amsoil product as it has a very high burning/smoking point. Some even use tallow.
    PS- You can also use ferrous carbide bits on your aluminum head. Used with grease they work well in getting things smoothed out. Obviously use the non-ferrous bits for faster removal.
    Todd

  2. #122
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    Re: Head Porting

    Thanks for the tips. Between you guys and the hours of YouTube videos I've watched, I'm learning a lot.

  3. #123
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    Re: Head Porting

    Getting started on another head I have. What do y'all think about my scribe lines? Too far, too close to the valve?

  4. #124
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Head Porting

    That's much more than what I did on my practice head. I forget what the suggested measurements were, but I went on the low side of them. I want to say I laid the eyebrows back less than a 1/4" from the edge of the valve when it protrudes to be even with the surface of the head.

  5. #125
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    That's much more than what I did on my practice head. I forget what the suggested measurements were, but I went on the low side of them. I want to say I laid the eyebrows back less than a 1/4" from the edge of the valve when it protrudes to be even with the surface of the head.
    Using the ole eyeballs I think it's pretty similar to the one Todd posted in post #91.

  6. #126
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Getting started on another head I have. What do y'all think about my scribe lines? Too far, too close to the valve?
    IMO, it sort of depends a bunch on what size valve you planned to run. 44/37mm valves are quite different than stock 40.6/35.3 valves.
    Todd

  7. #127
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    IMO, it sort of depends a bunch on what size valve you planned to run. 44/37mm valves are quite different than stock 40.6/35.3 valves.
    Todd
    Think I'll be going with +1's for this head. I probably won't take it as far as the scribe marks. I'm debating on tossing the first head on there and run it or port this one and use it. Only problem with this one is I'll need to get it machined for the +1's and new guides. Our only decent machinest retired.

  8. #128
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    It really doesn't increase it as much as one would think. I would say maybe 3cc or so using stock valves. I say this because I almost always use a custom Manley valve that decreases the chamber due to the design style of the valve. They are much less concave than the factory valve, so I'm gaining some volume back on what I lost de-shrouding. Sometimes after .006-.010 surface cut, I end up being the same or slightly less than a stock swirl. So around 49-50cc after resurfacing.
    On the g-head pictured. I removed a lot from the chamber. I ended up having a intentional .015 surface cut made to decrease chamber volume. On this head, I ended up at 57.8cc. Stock is about 1cc less. I aim for chambers and port volumes within .2cc of each other.

    Here are stock NOS casting cc's for swirl and g-head.
    Swirl
    Chamber 50.4- 51cc
    Intake 72.8-74cc
    Exhaust 56cc
    2.2 piston dish 14.5cc
    2.5 piston dish 27.5
    2.2 compression ratio 8.06:1 - 8.10:1
    2.5 compression ratio 7.84:1 - 7.87:1

    445 & 287 G-head
    Chamber 56.6cc
    Intake 84.2cc
    Exhaust 59.6cc
    2.2 piston dish 9cc
    2.2 compression ratio 8.06:1 - 8.10:1
    Dead on. I measured mine out to right at 53cc's.

  9. #129
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    I always run the damper spring. Supposed to help with harmonics. I did test pressures with and without damper though at some point. IIRC w/o looking, it wasn't much different w or w/o damper.
    A quick update concerning the comp 942 damper.

    So I had an issue with smoking last summer when I put my reliant back together. Turns out that some of the exhaust valve seals popped off.

    Just to be careful I went over to my machinist and we pulled some of the head apart to look and see if it needed any work.

    One of the thing we noticed was that the damper spring was digging into the aluminum a little bit where the valve guide comes through and also was offsetting the spring retainer to one side in one instance which was putting the retainer quite close to the cam towers.

    I got on the tech support chat with Comp and told them I was running a stock cam and only turning 6k with my 2.5 and that the dampers were digging into stuff and that its OHC with not a heavy valvetrain and they said I would be fine not running the damper.

    I was concerned that the spring may have a goofy harmonic at a lower RPM but they said Id be fine.

    So ill be getting a valve touch up, some positive type valve seal on the exhaust valves and mopar valve seals on the intake, comp 942 springs and no damper.

    even though the head was ingesting oil, and there was a little goofiness with the spring damper, the valvetrain with the PT lifters was dead quiet.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #130
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    A quick update concerning the comp 942 damper.

    So I had an issue with smoking last summer when I put my reliant back together. Turns out that some of the exhaust valve seals popped off.

    Just to be careful I went over to my machinist and we pulled some of the head apart to look and see if it needed any work.

    One of the thing we noticed was that the damper spring was digging into the aluminum a little bit where the valve guide comes through and also was offsetting the spring retainer to one side in one instance which was putting the retainer quite close to the cam towers.

    I got on the tech support chat with Comp and told them I was running a stock cam and only turning 6k with my 2.5 and that the dampers were digging into stuff and that its OHC with not a heavy valvetrain and they said I would be fine not running the damper.

    I was concerned that the spring may have a goofy harmonic at a lower RPM but they said Id be fine.

    So ill be getting a valve touch up, some positive type valve seal on the exhaust valves and mopar valve seals on the intake, comp 942 springs and no damper.

    even though the head was ingesting oil, and there was a little goofiness with the spring damper, the valvetrain with the PT lifters was dead quiet.

    Brian
    Brian,
    Perhaps your issue could have been because the factory guides are gang drilled. In other words the ID of the guide is not concentric with the guides OD. I've never had issues using the 942 spring w/damper with using both umbrella or positive seals. However I do always check clearance of spring and towers. Sometimes a slight massaging is done with a rotary file. Sometimes aftermarket guides don't fit the positive type seal very well, so watch for that. You'll know right away if the seal doesn't want to go on nice.
    Todd
    Last edited by 4 l-bodies; 09-14-2021 at 09:55 PM.

  11. #131
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Brian,
    Perhaps your issue could have been because the factory guides are gang drilled. In other words the ID of the guide is not concentric with the guides OD. I've never had issues using the 942 spring w/damper with using both umbrella or positive seals. However I do always check clearance of spring and towers. Sometimes a slight messaging is done with a rotary file. Sometimes aftermarket guides don't fit the positive type seal very well, so watch for that. You'll know right away if the seal doesn't want to go on nice.
    Todd
    Yeah there was just enough material around the guide, possibly offset to one side, that it was causing the interference.

    the head has new guides now and new mopar seals to allow a little more oil on the valve guides.

    the valve job needed a touch more cutting because the the guide bore to the seat wasnt quite concentric so that explains some of the issue.

    I think if the aluminum post part of the head where the guide comes through was cut to a little more of a taper without touching the base diameter so that the damper was still sitting on the spring seat that part would have cleared. then some die grinding on the tower and it would have been fine.

    either way the head is back together and the car will be back on the road soon.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  12. #132
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    Re: Head Porting


    Still rough shaping the chamber. Gonna round the plug hole side out a little more and lay it back some. Once the bigger valves are in then deshrouding on the other side will happen.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #133
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    Re: Head Porting

    Wow, lots of welding done to that head! Looks like a hybrid; swirl on one side, g-head on the other. Sort of like a mullet. What did they use to say, business up front, party in the back? (lol). You'll have a ton of hours into this thing before it's done. Looks good!
    Todd

  14. #134
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Wow, lots of welding done to that head! Looks like a hybrid; swirl on one side, g-head on the other. Sort of like a mullet. What did they use to say, business up front, party in the back? (lol). You'll have a ton of hours into this thing before it's done. Looks good!
    Todd
    Yes this was a swirl that we welded up. Got the welds ground down just waiting on valves to come in and then we will unshroud the back side and reshape the plug hole side on the flow bench.

    Hoping this thing works out well once done.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #135
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by Loudexploder View Post
    Yes this was a swirl that we welded up. Got the welds ground down just waiting on valves to come in and then we will unshroud the back side and reshape the plug hole side on the flow bench.

    Hoping this thing works out well once done.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I will imaging you will create yourself a custom tune with MPTune with a flash modules. Hopefully you also have a wideband to assist in the process. I am guessing you know all this stuff but thought I would shout out. If you do have questions, let us know
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  16. #136
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I will imaging you will create yourself a custom tune with MPTune with a flash modules. Hopefully you also have a wideband to assist in the process. I am guessing you know all this stuff but thought I would shout out. If you do have questions, let us know
    Ill be running a standalone. Torn between Holley Terminator and Fueltech at the moment. Ive learned a ton off the forums so far so ill definitely be shouting out with any questions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #137
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by Loudexploder View Post
    Ill be running a standalone. Torn between Holley Terminator and Fueltech at the moment. Ive learned a ton off the forums so far so ill definitely be shouting out with any questions.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Excellent
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  18. #138
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Head Porting

    i havent got my hands on one yet but the fueltech looks fantastic. then again the holley does too. so much data and automation available.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  19. #139
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    i havent got my hands on one yet but the fueltech looks fantastic. then again the holley does too. so much data and automation available.

    Brian
    We run Holley on all of our Turbo LS stuff. I love the 12" dash and it would fit my van dash perfectly.

    The fuel tech is maybe 1k more. I think it offers more options than the holley, but I dont like the small screen. Im really leaning towards the fuel tech tho cause of the options and I wanna try out the traction control.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #140
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    Re: Head Porting

    Quote Originally Posted by Loudexploder View Post
    Yes this was a swirl that we welded up. Got the welds ground down just waiting on valves to come in and then we will unshroud the back side and reshape the plug hole side on the flow bench.

    Hoping this thing works out well once done.
    If I may ask, why did you just not use a G-head? My max effort porting results in similar flow bench #'s, at least the way I port them. My conclusions are the swirls intake seem to have a slight edge flow wise (esp. around .400 lift), while the G-heads exhaust consistently is a smidge better than the swirls.
    Todd

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