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Thread: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

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    3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Is there a place where all the Auto trans mods (vb or internal) are together? If not we need to collect it all and post it in this thread and then post it in the new KC.

    I have spent some time searching so I can do some mods to my minivan transmission. The problem I am running into is threads are referencing procedures without providing links or giving incomplete instructions. I hear a lot of "backyard VB mods" but I still haven't seen a proper how to. I found a thread talking about drilling some holes with broken image links, then I found a thread with images but no diagram and no instructions, I also found a thread about removing a ball but no mention of which one. Also it seems as if there are different ways around some of the mods like the Accumulator, VB, and governor all have multiple ways of modding.

    Valve body mods: With a stock valve body what holes need drilled(with pictures), what ball needs removed(also with pictures), What to do with line pressure(can provide process for stock clutch pack or modified clutch pack), and any spring/valve mods. Any alternative separator plate drilling needs kept separate.

    Governor: Springs, weights, and grinding -what maybe some pictures with some examples of what works on stock stuff.

    Internal trans mods: Mainly clutch pack stuff like the 5 clutch setups and decreasing clutch pack clearance, Also race mods like pinion cup bracing and Needle bearing mods. Some of the simple stuff too like the heavy duty band strut and other mods too.

    Torque Converter: Aftermarket options listed, and some stock stall speeds listed, neon torque converter and lockup instructions could help too.

    Transfer gears/FD: I know there is a KC article already but if we can get it all together it would be nice

    LSD installs: Some options like the OBX+ spacer, peloquin, or race spool.

    Any other mods that you can think of that should be included feel free to post, I dont think any rebuild info other than clutch pack mods should be needed. If you are doing a rebuild the ATSG manual is a must ( I have a PDF somewhere Ill have to find it and post it)

    I have spare clutch packs, and a valve body on my bench right now so if any pictures are needed of the mods I can provide them.
    Last edited by shackwrrr; 08-20-2012 at 12:00 AM.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Your not going to find all the information in one place. There's bits and pieces here and there that you're going to have to accumulate and decipher for yourself. As far as gathering all the information into one KC article, someone just needs the drive and time to get it done.

    I didn't know squat about automatics other than what I learned in school 20 years ago. A lot is searching, reading, asking questions, trial and error. I've got it all down now except for the governor, what weights and pressures to run to get wide open throttle shifts without hitting the rev limiter. In the mean time I'm installing a manual valve body in my Dad's car so he can have fun at the track until I can figure out the governor.

    A.J.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Your not going to find all the information in one place. There's bits and pieces here and there that you're going to have to accumulate and decipher for yourself. As far as gathering all the information into one KC article, someone just needs the drive and time to get it done.

    I didn't know squat about automatics other than what I learned in school 20 years ago. A lot is searching, reading, asking questions, trial and error. I've got it all down now except for the governor, what weights and pressures to run to get wide open throttle shifts without hitting the rev limiter. In the mean time I'm installing a manual valve body in my Dad's car so he can have fun at the track until I can figure out the governor.

    A.J.

    Why make it hard, I want to put it in one place, that's the reason I made this thread, I just wanted to make sure someone didnt have a write up already . More than one person can work on the same article, we just need to get it all together, that's the point of the KC, so it isn't like reading an FSM that went through the paper shredder.

    Edit: I read my first post again and I guess I didn't make clear I wanted to consolidate everything here.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    There are numerous threads with all the info but here it is again. I think I covered it all.

    Get the ATSG book, don't ATTEMPT to rebuild a trans without one, its invaluable.


    This link pretty well cover it all, the Neon has a softer spring so use that or heat it up, your call. I also just run the stock plates in the rear drum or direct drum, could never get anything to hold up. I use 4 A404 steels and one A413 in the front drum to get 5 clutch discs in there.

    http://web.archive.org/web/200312090...s%20detail.htm

    Rob's guide to what transmission ratio's you have-

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com


    Use the reusable pan gasket, #05011113AA and install a drain plug.

    Grind the low/reverse pin housing so the band will clear with the drum installed.

    Get a converter from Pats, Hugh's or Coan.

    Install the Sonnax rear band strut.

    Do this to the line pressure-

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ody-and-theory

    Governor info, I lightened the smaller valve as I like the 1-2 shift to take a bit longer.

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...light=governor

    Welding up the case-

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ht=dcr+bracing

    I just locked the pinion retainer in place so your call on that one-

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...light=spinning

    Depending on HP, you'll need a custom input shaft and a matching converter-

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...upplier-listed.

    Again depending on power level, you might want to look into heat treating the output shaft.

    I sell a rollerized sun gear for the output shaft as due to the loading of that area, the metal thrust washer gets pounded. Around $90 plus shipping and a core is needed.

    And finally, a good thread on what your asking-

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...highlight=guru
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  5. #5
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Thanks for the reply simon, I would still like to get all that info into a KC article instead of relying on the web archive.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Is the accumulator piston really the same between the 904, 727 and 413 series? This eBay add implies that it is...

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrysler-Dod...sories&vxp=mtr
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    I had the same problem as the OP a year ago, i had to look in many different places to find the info i needed for a ATX.

    Here are some links i saved in my fav's just incaes i need them.

    https://sites.google.com/site/bammerichko/
    http://www.turbovan.net/Trans.html
    http://web.archive.org/web/200302062...opars+Home.htm

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    I think this is a great idea! Especially if I don't have to do it!

    As a thread I think it's great for no other reason than it puts all the links in one spot... As a bonus, we might even be able to discuss the merits of one mod vs another...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
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  9. #9
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    I have a 4 day weekend coming up, I'll sit down and organize it all into a kc article. Anyone object to taking the info from the archived web pages and putting it here?
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Is the accumulator piston really the same between the 904, 727 and 413 series? This eBay add implies that it is...

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrysler-Dod...sories&vxp=mtr
    What do we need it for?

    Ours isn't plastic either.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  11. #11
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    What do we need it for?

    Ours isn't plastic either.
    We don't. Mostly I was just curious what other parts (if any) might interchange from 904 type trans...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  12. #12
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Wanted to add you really need a way to assemble the one way clutch at the rear of the case. I found an old neon case in the jy that I beat the inner race for the one way clutch out of the case, I also got the direct drum for the 5 clutches out of it. You will have a hard time getting it in there without something like that to assemble it on. I agree with Simon get the ATSG manual it gives you a step by step guide to disassemble and reassemble the transmission along with the adjustments.

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    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by shackwrrr View Post
    I have a 4 day weekend coming up, I'll sit down and organize it all into a kc article. Anyone object to taking the info from the archived web pages and putting it here?
    go ahead.

    i talked to joe dzwill (JDIZZ on here) at sdac this summer and he was going to try to get ahold of Carl to see if we could host his old website here cause there was even more current info after the archive we have here.

    so go ahead and turn that page into a post or two or 3 or a KC article and ill see if joe got ahold of carl yet.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  14. #14
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    go ahead.

    i talked to joe dzwill (JDIZZ on here) at sdac this summer and he was going to try to get ahold of Carl to see if we could host his old website here cause there was even more current info after the archive we have here.

    so go ahead and turn that page into a post or two or 3 or a KC article and ill see if joe got ahold of carl yet.

    Brian
    I remember there being way more info on his site before.

  15. #15
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by wallace View Post
    Wanted to add you really need a way to assemble the one way clutch at the rear of the case. I found an old neon case in the jy that I beat the inner race for the one way clutch out of the case, I also got the direct drum for the 5 clutches out of it. You will have a hard time getting it in there without something like that to assemble it on...
    This is the kind of thing I was referring to in regards to the thread being a good place to collect/coalesce the info and tip/tricks to successful upgrades as well as limitations of stock stuff. If I recall correctly, Simon had some issues with an accumulator piston blowing out, and had to go to a billet unit to fix it.

    Stuff like this is what will allow us to be successful in our builds, and help folks avoid problems.

    One other thing I'd love to see in a KC article is a list of the parts/part numbers and where to get them, sort of a one stop shop for 3-speed mods...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    This is the kind of thing I was referring to in regards to the thread being a good place to collect/coalesce the info and tip/tricks to successful upgrades as well as limitations of stock stuff. If I recall correctly, Simon had some issues with an accumulator piston blowing out, and had to go to a billet unit to fix it.

    Stuff like this is what will allow us to be successful in our builds, and help folks avoid problems.

    One other thing I'd love to see in a KC article is a list of the parts/part numbers and where to get them, sort of a one stop shop for 3-speed mods...

    Mike
    Yeah, due to the higher line pressure but doing Chad's mod fix's that problem, as the pressure is normal in reverse.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  17. #17
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Oh, so the failure was only when it went into reverse?
    What was the mod that fixed the problem?, something that limits pressure in reverse?

    I understand that normally reverse gets max pressure as well as engaging the band to add some extra holding power, but figured it would be doing the same in L1 too, but I haven't dissected too many of these transmissions, so I wouldn't know for sure...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
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  18. #18
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    If you spacer the spring reverse pressure can top 250psi, the mod that fixes it is the drilling the vb bleed hole for pressure. The bleed hole boosts forward line pressure but leaves reverse where it would be normally.

    L1 uses the same piston but not the same pressure.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Quote Originally Posted by zin View Post
    Oh, so the failure was only when it went into reverse?
    What was the mod that fixed the problem?, something that limits pressure in reverse?

    I understand that normally reverse gets max pressure as well as engaging the band to add some extra holding power, but figured it would be doing the same in L1 too, but I haven't dissected too many of these transmissions, so I wouldn't know for sure...

    Mike
    I had a 727 spring in there out of a shift kit which jacked the line pressure, reverse uses more so if I wasn't careful or the idle was too high, it would literally snap the cast piston or blow out the seal, so I made a billet one using the stock seal and it blew that out, so I had another made with a scarf seal and no more problems. I think a year after that Chad posted up his bleed on the valve body so that piston isn't needed anymore as reverse line pressure stays the same as stock.
    Last edited by turbovanmanČ; 08-22-2012 at 01:53 PM.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  20. #20
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: 3 speed auto Trans mods all in one place

    Good info there! This thread, and the KC article that follows will be a gold mine for everyone, especially newbs!

    Simon, or anyone that knows, that bleeder hole, I take it that it goes into the passage that normally sees that high/250psi, and this specific sized hole relieves enough flow to lower the pressure back to normal L1 pressures?...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

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