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Thread: Is it worth it?

  1. #1

    Is it worth it?

    So I'm in the process of putting together my GLH-T. I got it sans engine. I've since sourced a complete '88 T2 engine out of a Z. My goal for the car is simple. Fast fun and reliable. I'm not going for record breaking performance, but I want it to be an easy low 13sec car to high 12s.

    For controls I'm using a GLHS harness and Stage 2 LM. I know there are more modern customizable options out there, but I've always had good luck with the Stage2, and I like the simplicity of oem. Probably gonna set the boost around 16psi.

    The engine is getting refreshed and upgraded with ARP hardware throughout. Ive got a 2piece intake for it, stock turbo, 2.5" SV and a full 3" exhaust. I'm gonna run a stock GLHS rad cooler, and want it to retain a mostly factory appearance.

    So here's my question, the engine I have has a stock 782 head on it with the factory roller cam. For not much money, I could acquire a Ghead with +1 valves, Mopar springs and a NOS S60 slider cam. Is it gonna be worth the expenditure to do this upgrade, and how much of a gain would it be?

  2. #2
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    No to S60 slider cam, they wear fast.

    2 bar map sensor can ONLY see up to 14.7 psi, running 16psi means computer is blind to that extra 1.3 psi of boost. Beside, I don't think the 16psi will get your goal, especially not with street tires.

    Does G head just have + 1 valves and no porting done?

    Is 3 bar map sensor, 87 TII LM with 3 bar calibration and biggest set of injectors out of the question?

  3. #3

    Re: Is it worth it?

    I'm aware the S60 cams have a wear problem.

    I'm also familiar with 2bar vs 3bar setups. I know it's not optimal, but I've run several cars with 2bar cals over 14psi.

    I do have an AFPR as well as a set of +20s and +40s laying around. As well as a wideband.

    And I intend on staying with the GLHS electronics and LM, at least for now.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    I've never had good luck with a G head on a later engine. Especially with a cal for a swirl head. You'll have very low compression, and the wrong spark curve.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
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    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  5. #5
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by vntned View Post
    I'm aware the S60 cams have a wear problem.

    I'm also familiar with 2bar vs 3bar setups. I know it's not optimal, but I've run several cars with 2bar cals over 14psi.

    I do have an AFPR as well as a set of +20s and +40s laying around. As well as a wideband.

    And I intend on staying with the GLHS electronics and LM, at least for now.
    Sounds you already have your mind made up as your plan will proceed the way you envision it.

    Tell me one thing, what were the result of the " several cars with 2bar cals over 14psi.". Did any of them made into 13's?

  6. #6

    Re: Is it worth it?

    In all honesty, I wasn't hunting for a Ghead setup. I've always preferred the later fastburn head. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've never modified a Ghead engine. My brother in law was kind enough to offer me the Ghead with valves and springs and cam at a great price.

    I think I will proceed as previously planned and just run the 782 head and roller cam for now.

    Also, I get that my recipe isn't necessarily the best setup for ultimate power, but I've already got most of it. And like I said, I've run the same combo before with great results.

    As far as if the other cars running this setup were capable of 13s, I would have to say yes. Even though I never took them to the track, I'm confident both of which were capable of running well into the 13s. One was a '87 CSX and the other was a SC. Both were running '87 T2 engines with the basic upgrades. Stage 2 LM, 2.5" sv, 3" exhaust, +20s, and Gvalved to 15-16psi. The CSX had a FM cam in it, as well as a few other minor tweaks.

    Hell, my last GLH that was T1 swapped, could've potentially broken into the 13s. It would stay right beside my buddy's modded LS1 Z28 up until the end of 3rd gear. Then the Camaro started pulling away. It was an '85 T1 short block, cut 782 head, MP767 cam, 804 injectors, bored out TB, stock Garrett, 2.5sv, full 2.5 exhaust, udp, stage 1 LM, Gvalved to 14psi. It was very simple, but went like hell. Even my pal with the Z28 was blown away with how it did!

  7. #7
    turbo addict
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    That car ran like a raped ape until the engine decided it didn't want to make oil pressure. Comparing it to my 86 Daytona that trapped 93 with just an open downpipe, blown turbo that wouldn't spool worth a crap and 14psi with a fwdp s2, it was an easy mid-low 13 capable setup. It was just a stock swirl longblock with that 2 piece, +40's, bigger TB, fmic, 3"sv-3" exh, 3.5" intake to turbo, 3 bar smec setup on 18psi.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    Feel and actual 1/4 time is two completely different thing.

    A.J. thought his minivan was going to be in the 14's then he got 15.001.
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...l=1#post949354

    My car is capable running low 12's due to it's trap speed at 117mph, but I can't make it faster than 13.249
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1134503


    Point is, the car might feel fast due to the way a turbo 2.2/2.5 deliver its torque at round 3000rpm, but it might actually not be that fast in the 1/4 mile. Then, you have launching technique and tires to work on getting a good 60 ft time.

  9. #9
    turbo addict
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    My Daytona was an 86 turbo z cs automatic. The turbo was so bad that I could not build boost off the line brake torquing. I would literally leave the line at -5inhg and it wouldn't hit 14lbs untill like 4000rpm. Still trapped 92.5 exactly but it was a slug off the line with a 2.5 60. That car was just a t2 setup with a 1 piece intake, roller cam, stock I/c, fwdp s2, 2.25 sv to 2.25 open downpipe, tiny motorcycle cone filter directly on the half dead turbo. That car wasn't even remotely close to as fast as the Omni. I stand by my statement 100%.

  10. #10

    Re: Is it worth it?

    Look, I get that the butt dyno isn't an actual measurement, that being said, if you've ridden in a 13sec car, and then a 15sec car you should be able to tell which one is faster. Maybe not to the exact tenth of what it's capable of, but you should get close.

    I get that a bad driver, suspension, tires etc. can result in a poorer et than the car is capable of. That is not what I'm getting at.

    I'm simply saying, I would like the car to have enough power to be capable of running low 13s or better. And my only question was wether the +1mm Ghead setup would be a worthwhile change.

    It's not my first turbododge, and definitely not my first hot rod. And I definitely don't want to have a endless discussion on hypothetical nuances.

  11. #11
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    Personally I would stick with the fast burn head, the GLHS stage 2 LM is called for that head. G head require more timing down low and you will loose compression as well. EVEN MAYBE PURCHASE SOME +1 MM VALVES FOR THE 782 Head, they're pretty inexpensive.
    Maybe buy the super 60 cam and use it, that would be an upgrade even though they don't last forever.

  12. #12
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by vntned View Post
    I'm simply saying, I would like the car to have enough power to be capable of running low 13s or better.
    We have this nice 1/4 mile database I would more people would use. Excluded the jeep, slowest trap speed to get to 12's is 102.88 mph with a 1.8 60 ft time. So if 12 is what you want, that is how you get there.

    http://www.turbo-mopartimes.com/


    No, I don't think a 16 psi will get you there on a stock car.


    I think Marcus86GLHS ran 12's with relatively few mods but around 20 psi.

  13. #13
    turbo addict
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    Re: Is it worth it?

    I agree with that. You'll need a 3 bar setup with a decent amount of boost. You ditched the smec harness?

  14. #14

    Re: Is it worth it?

    Yeah, I wanted to put ac back on the car and put it back closer to stock. Not to mention I scored a complete unmolested harness out of an '86 GLHS. So it's plug and play. Marty wanted me to go with the SMEC setup and go race car, but I'm more interested in a fast daily that's as comfy as an Omni can be. And I'm not saying a custom Cal and 3bar won't happen down the road, but initially it's gonna be a fairly mild car. I'm quite confident I can get it into the mid to upper 13sec zone with what I'm planning.

    I would like to go with ported manifolds and a .63 exhaust housing, as well as a 3" SV. However, I'd like it to maintain a fairly stock looking engine bay.

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