Rob aka shadow has been making a lot of power on a non common block for a long time.
Rob aka shadow has been making a lot of power on a non common block for a long time.
Mike Marra
1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
Project Log:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=
Hey guys , important info -
The blue car at 13psi , 93 octane is 350hp.
At 28psi and 110 octane 500's ( electromotiv Dyno )
It is very VERY tricky to drive with that much power.
On the track , except straights, I turn boost to around 13, on straight 20 .
It can get SUPER LIGHT in the front end.
It has Toyo r888,:s race alignment. All new everything.
On the street - straight line is fun , drifting a corner is white knuckle, hoping to not to spin and loose it completely.
I like to think I drive well, handle cars well.
The lack of tire size in the back really hurts, controllability.
I would not aim for more then 300hp if you intend to really use it.
So a huge HP swap is just for bragging rights. Not really that fun , or useful in this car.
If I was going to do a swap I would do a Hayabusa , and sequential shifter. Revs to 13k , weighs nothing , fits with the "add lightness" concept.
Side note- what was the best 1/4 time anyone ever did in my blue car? I saw video of Mike doing 11.3 .
I thought eventually it did high tens, is that right?
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I'd be looking at adding some downforce.
Something I hadn't considered much until recently with motorcycle engines being used in cars are lateral G-forces. Those engines aren't designed with lateral G-forces in mind when considering their oil systems. Too much cornering can starve the oil pick-up and...POP goes the engine. There's solutions for this of course, but just something to keep in mind.
The down force splitter ideas don't really work well via trial and error and with a splitter comes a rear wing ( look at the intruder)
Not trying to rain on anyones parade but with the most hours put on a high hp GTP,
I think I would stick to Max 300 HP for overall drivability.
But hey , that's just my thought.
The Hayabusa is run in literally thousands of formula race cars and like the Radical- they make HUGE G forces. . They run a dry sump normally
Tires- I can't fit bigger then 225/45/16.
I know Randy had 245/17
I guess each car is different.
Going back to my 1/4 mi question- anyone know?
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I'm right with you on all of the points but I'll try to talk through my reasoning:
The car IS pretty light on the front end and I've been trying to work through that issue and so far the only thing that helps is more weight. No real downforce can be found at street driving speeds.
As for the "too much HP" thing, Yes, it's possible to over power a chassis, The last tune I had on the car with the mildly ported 8v head would spin the tires when I hit full boost in 2nd....BUT most if not all exotic/supercars are like that as well as sport bikes.
It takes a certain mindset to get behind the wheel, I know this and I'm ok with that.
I'm also OK with a 300hp 2.4 that will last 100k miles. I don't plan on tuning it past the current limitations of the car or my ability to drive it.
This is exactly how I spun a rod bearing.
Don't worry, no offense taken, I know you're the guy with the most "clench" time and value your input for sure.
The tire problem definitely needs some thought. The series 2 cars seem to have more space in the rear for bigger tires. On my car, 225/50/15's rub the intercooler cover in the fender at hwy speeds so I can't go much taller than a 24" tire in the rear...once you start getting into wide sizes, they all end up way too tall. The closest thing I've found is a 255/45/15 ( 24" tall 10" wide ) but the tread looks like they belong on a rat rod
I went from street tires to road race tires on mine and wont go back to street tires unless its for a long trip.
The grip is so much better. I drove it to Portland and back (550miles round trip) and maybe its because the car
is so light it seems fine.
Put them on my black Revolution wheels and kind of like the black wheel look on it in place of the teal ones.
Great stuff for great cars! Poly engine mounts and bushings at: http://www.polybushings.com
"I know Randy had 245/17"
Yes I am running 17's
Warren is also running 17's on his car.
I have been dreaming of a motor swap also.
It would not be a Chrysler for sure.
I have been thinking of a Rotary.
But the Hayabusa is a good idea also ,I bet it would sound awesome and it is light .
Rotary is light also and it's pretty small so I believe it would fit in the engine bay....as long as you don't care about a little smoke.... and you can't beat the sound of a revving rotary.
Well, I think it's time to post an update and some lessons learned. Keep in mind I'm only going to cover GTP specific problems...this isn't a 2.4 into an omni post
Initial thoughts: Figuring out what parts to use was harder than the swap. I had an idea but just because it works for an Omni doesn't mean it'll work in a GTP. Never and I mean NEVER tell a machine shop that you're in no hurry! Double check all of your parts before install.
Engine build list:
05 block, BC rods with ARP624+ bolts, Clevite H series crank and rod bearings, crank strap kit and machined bedplate with main studs, no balance assembly, custom oil pan baffle and windage tray, Arias forged pistons, BC springs with titanium retainers, billet oil pump gears, ARP head studs, and lightened flywheel with TU 6 puck black plate clutch. Trans is a 555/520 hybrid with the OBX LSD, bronze shift fork pads and 3.50 gears.
The head has some cleanup work done and I'm using stock cams for now, but I wanted the bottom end to be able to support whatever I decided to do in the future.
I was aware that there was a consulier with a 2.4 engine in it at one point or another and reached out to Jacob to get some info on it as I was fitting the engine. Turns out that the "factory 2.4" car was never completed and from the pictures used the neon manual trans but was never completed...so I was on my own... :/
There a number of interference issues with the N(eon)SRT 2.4. These are in order of discovery / remedy
1. The lower front of the oil pan needs to occupy the same space as the passenger side lower frame rail and the oil galley routes thru that part of the pan so the frame needed to be moved out 2 inches as well as the passenger rear brake line mount. This will also cause the belly cover not to fit so I have some fiberglass work ahead of me.
2. NSRT alternator / bracket and passenger rear suspension rocker arm. Needed to use the 98-99 stratus alternator and bracket.
3. Previous route for radiator return hose was between the passenger lower frame rail and the oil pan. Lower hose now routes from the back of the water pump toward the trans then routes between the engine and trans then returns to factory routing to the left of the passenger shock. Has 6 coolant hoses now. 2 modified NSRT lower hoses for the new routing.
The axle mount, passenger and front motor mounts were the only custom pieces and motor mounts are similar in configuration to the stock ( custom ) pieces.
Wiring wasn't as bad a I had expected and there were only a few wires that had to be moved: Coolant temp, oil temp / pressure and coil connection wires were lengthened. I did move the entire rear section of the harness to the front by the firewall to clean up the engine bay and that might have contributed to having to lengthen some of the wiring.
The engine is down and apart at the moment due to a ridiculous mistake ( wrong oil rings ) that I didn't catch when building the motor, but the new parts will be here next week and it'll be back on the road as soon as I can make it happen.
I got the engine back together and it seems to be running well. Trying to put some break in miles on it....80 so far