No Start Issue Code 44 // 3rd month - no solution

[MopàrBCN]

Hello, this is now an old issue which I did not get resolved in Month concerning my own car. This is going to be long. For me it is a tough one.

I would really apreciate any help possible on this one !!!!

The Car: 1988 Lebaron Convertible 2.2 Turbo 1

The Problem:

1. No Start
2. No Fuel (that one is for sure)
3. No Sparc (that one I could not test so far, because I have not had any help).

The History: A lot of things. All started with a Charging Issue. As Well as that the car started stalling while in Motion. When I started tracing the problems things got worse and eventually the car not started at all.

The CODES:

1. Initially (after 10 seconds cranking) 42,43,44
2. Now after replacing the SMEC I am only getting Code 44

What I have done so far with NO RESULT:

On the ignition Side:

New Coil, New Plugs, New Rotor, New HEP, New Cables

Further: New SMEC (from A1-Cardone), New ASD

As well as replacing those parts I have followed each and any Diagnostic path written down in the Chrysler Powertrain Diagnostic Manual. To no avail. The circuits in question are good. So it resulted from the the Manual that the SMEC is detective. Now, 400$ and 2 SMECs later I am still having the issue.

ONE THING I DID: I resoldered on spec al splices near the battery which seemed a bit corroded. I measured all connections and all appears to be where it should be. I am completely buffeled.

Yes, I did as well bridge the ASD:
1. Fuel Pump engaged directly
But could not start the car (which leads me to suspect that there is no sparc)

Other observation: (PLEASE READ I feel it could be a clue)

When I swapped the SMEC I initially did not get any code (not even 12,55 !!?!?). When I touched the 14 Way Connector eventually I got codes after cranking. One time it gave me 42, 43 and 44 again. Then I decided to disconnect the battery to see if it clears all codes. THIS MIGHT BE INTERESTING FOR THE PEOPLE LIKE @MINIMOPAR: Without trying to crank I did check codes after reconnection. I instantly got 44. The same with the other two SMECs I baught! After cranking now it stays with 44. 42 and 43 have not been throughn again.

Another one for the record: I do suspect that I am having possibly a connection problem in the 14 Way connector. But how on earth do I service it??? Not to mention: Where could I buy a new one. I have learned Ohms law in dealing with my electronics troubles........

Thanks a LOT indeed for any useful comment of what I could have overseen. Or if I have blown my smecs by just fitting them, how can I asure that it is safe to place one???????

[MiniMopar]

I think that this code is thrown when the logic board is getting power from the power board (via the 8V supply), sees pulses from the ignition reference sensor, but does not see the J2 feed from the power board (circuit K14 from pin 3 on the 14-way to pin 12 on the 60-way). This same wire has a splice and it feeds one side of the ASD relay coil. The wire is blue with a white stripe and it should have 12V on it when the ingition key is on.

[MopàrBCN]

I think that this code is thrown when the logic board is getting power from the power board (via the 8V supply), sees pulses from the ignition reference sensor, but does not see the J2 feed from the power board (circuit K14 from pin 3 on the 14-way to pin 12 on the 60-way). This same wire has a splice and it feeds one side of the ASD relay coil. The wire is blue with a white stripe and it should have 12V on it when the ingition key is on.

Hello, this is exactly what my powertrain diagnostics does say (thanks for explaining what is actually happening that moment!!!). With the old SMEC I surely did test it resulting of not having power at pin 12 on the 60 way meanwhile I did have continuity between the Pin 3 of the 14 Way and pin 12 of the 60 way (so assuming the connection was correct) thus resulting in me deciding to buy a new smec. This is what I recall from memory. Its some time ago but I have recorded the results (and left them in the car which is about 20 miles away from where I am right now).

Tomorrow I will focus on this issue and do retesting and I will post here my findings.

Would my logic be right in assuming, that even though I might be getting 42 and 43 again, that my prime concern at this moment is code 44, correct?

[MiniMopar]

The code 42 is related to the code 44. If, say, the condition around the code 44 is intermittent it could trigger the code 42. 42 is a similar diagnostic as the 44, but it is checking the output of the ASD relay (green wire that leads back to pin 10 on the 60-way). So if K14 came back momentarily, causing the logic board to try to start the engine, and then went away again it could be seen as a loss of the ASD relay output.

The code 43 is interesting and indicates another wiring problem, though it could have been a blown driver in the power board of that SMEC.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, I have been with the car today.

First of all, I did already resolder the K14 splice a month ago or so.

Measuring for open circuits proofed that I was fine on this side. I have continuity from the ASD Relay to Pin 3 of the 14 Way Connector and also to Pin 12 of the 60 way connector.

NOTE: All of the following testing was done with the SMEC disconnected!

The blue-white wire you mentioned (K14) from the ASD Relay does not carry any voltage. Neither during cranking nor in Run Position nor with keys off.

Also the Green Wire at the ASD Relay (Z1) leading to the coil does not carry significant Voltage (0.3V). Here I noticed that the Voltage rose during cranking but only Marginally (up to 0.6 Volts). I checked as well this wire between Relay and Coil and it did show resistance, so nothing open there.

The only Wire constantly carrying Voltage (between 12.5 and 13 V) was the Red Wire J1. This carried Voltage even if the key was not put in.

So far my observations.

It did stay with code 44.

Obviously I did not get the car started.

--------------------------------------

Noe to the question part:

K14 never saw voltage. Now I am asking myself, where is it supposed to get it from? I Suppose the 12 Volts have to travel from the Relay to the SMEC or is it the other way around? If that would be the case I have tested silly, because the SMEC was disconnected

Does it make sence what I am writing?

Thanks again!!!

[MiniMopar]

K14 comes from the power board (sourced by J2, pin 4 on the 14-way) and goes to the logic board and also to the ASD relay coil. The logic board will ground the other side of the relay coil when it wants to turn it on. J2 comes from the ignition key. Are you getting 12V on J2 (dark blue wire) with the igntiion key on? If not, it could be a bad ignition switch or a blown fueible link.

[MopàrBCN]

Ok, so all in all it does not look that good right now, right? Or in other words: If I am having Voltage on J2, given that my wiring of K14 is good, which in fact it is, All my SMECs a re blown. This is what it would mean, wouldn't it?
I'll check this tomorrow. But how can that happen. I virtually placed the new SMEC and instantly got Code 44.....

[MiniMopar]

I think that K14 is basically a fused J2. Perhaps there is a short? What happens if you jump 12V to K14?

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, this I nearly forgot to ask you if I can do that.

So, let me sumarize my plan for today (and if you get a chance see if it makes sense):

1. Check for Voltage on Pin 4/14 (J2) to see if SMEC receives that 12 Volts from the ignition switch with key in run
2. If 1 is true then with SMEC installed I will check if I still do not get Voltage in K14 during cranking at the ASD.
3. If 2 is false I will feed 12 Volts into K14 to see what happens

By the way I really appreciate your help. I am learning a lot right now. This is the positive side of things!

Thanks again !!!

[MiniMopar]

Sounds good...good luck!

[MopàrBCN]

Well then.......

1. Yes I do have 12 volts in Pin 4/14 (I was hoping for no....)
2. No, I do not have voltage in K14

When I realized that this is the case I did feed 12 volts to the K14 connector at the ASD. When turning the key to the run position I could hear the relais clicking but no fuel pump engagement.
(I do get fuel pump engagement if I am feeding voltage directly to the coil) Like this I did try to crank the engine, but nothing happened. It drained the battery very fast (but it was already weakened from my attempts before.

Now the curious bit of the saga!

1. At times I put the key in run position and do see the check engine light but then when I am trying to read codes NOTHING happens. Later then it does work

2. After trying to crank with the feeded K14 circuit I read code 42,43,44 (I was surprised about Code 44 (!!) since I would have guessed that the logic module inside the SMEC does not know where it gets its feed from!

!!!!----->>>>3. Now for the strange part: After the battery was more or less flat, I swapped it with a charged one and disconected the jumper wires. Then I gave it a crank from hell about 20 seconds. I could swear that after this I did smell gasoline (!!!!!) also for the first time it did no throw codes. BUT, neither did it throw 12, only 55. It did this for 2 runs. In both it did not start up though.

4. Then I swapped my three SMECs (two of which I bought new).
Not one of them gave me J2 Voltage at Pin 12/60 with the 14 Way connector put in and of cause the 60 way disconnected to measure voltage. The Key was in Run Position.
On the codes:
The old one, same as usual. 42,43,44.
The second one (a California One which I accidentally bought, thinking my car would be california). This one I have put in the second time. But this gave me nothing. it did not even show the check engine light.
Then my new one on which I was doing recent testing, which was back to where it always was, at Code 44

So right now, I begin to realize that I do not know what more to do.... It is driving me nuts, given that this car drove all the way back from Germany to Spain (where I baught it) and ever since it let me down.

This fusible link issue is my las hoping point. But have absolutely NO idea how one should be if it is gone. There are some weak seeming ones. But all of them feel like rubber bands more or less but none of them stretches.

I wish you could tell me something else I could do. I am out of ideas.

[MiniMopar]

There is some circuitry between J2 and K14. At least a diode or two. I can't see the PCB well enough through the potting to see beyond that. If you are indeed popping the SMEC here, something is shorting out the K14 side enough to blow out said circuitry. If you know anyone that can repair electronics, they should be able to repair the damage.

Just need to keep zeroing in on the problem.

If you hear/feel the ASD clicking but you don't get power to the coil/pump, that sounds like a blown fusible link. WIth the ignition on and K14 hot-wired, short the ASD coil signal from the logic board to ground (K19: dark blue with a yellow stripe, *not* dark blue with a white stripe). This will actuate the ASD relay. The fuel pump should run and you should measure 12V at the coil.

It could also be an intermittent ground somewhere that is making the other voltage readings done by the logic module look wrong.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, wouldnn't you fancy a week in Barcelona??? I feel if you were here the problem would be located in 2 days.

Well, and I feel I am getting into the subject in a matter that I am starting understanding things, in that respect first of all "THANKS AGAIN" for your detailed explainations.

It is dificult to explain apreciation in a forum, but I am telling you I really apreciate your time and effort!!!

Ok, to the subject:

Yes, when I pumped in 12 Volts in the K14 circuit and put the Key into run I did hear the ASD relay but nothing more (there was a strange noise for a moment as if something wanted to engage but being to weak...it sounded nearly like a cracking radio)

Now let me look at this one where you said: "If you hear/feel the ASD clicking but you don't get power to the coil/pump, that sounds like a blown fusible link. WIth the ignition on and K14 hot-wired, short the ASD coil signal from the logic board to ground (K19: dark blue with a yellow stripe, *not* dark blue with a white stripe). This will actuate the ASD relay. The fuel pump should run and you should measure 12V at the coil."

Let me repeat this in my own words to see if I got it right:

1. I will put again 12 volts in the K14 circuit
2. I put ignition to the run position
3. Now I jump the K19 wire (which is oposit the K14 Wire in the ASD Relay leading to the DRB II connector, do you mean that one?) to a good ground

If this is right, could I put the jumper wire in the Service Connector to jump from there?

On the fusible link, yes there is one which seems softer then the others. But without force I can not stretch it. However, today I have taken off the Battery tray and what I saw there did not look good at all. So from your post and my findings I have raised my level of hope that something tracable may be found!

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow !!!

Thanks and Greetings

[MiniMopar]

Yep, you got it right. I don't think that wire goes to the diagnostic connector. Buzzing of the relays is pretty classic of a grounding issue in the electronics.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, just to give you an update on this issue: I have decided to fix-up my harness before I get on with testing. Reason is that I have discovered that part of the harness runs under the batterytray and there I found it to be in an extremely bad state. Meanwhile I am searching a harness to buy but meanwhile I do not have one, I have startet cleaning all connectors and insulations to first of all visually inspect an checking all circuits. At this point I'd like to thank you for your pacience and help. I won't give up.

[daytonajesse]

I have an 88 fsm if you want me to send a picture, I had this exact problem the blue wire with the white tracer was the culprit, it connects the 2 smec connectors and the asd together (J2) I think. Anyway use your multimeter and check for continuity from the 60-way to the asd and the 14-way, there is probably a break somewhere in there.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, apart from that this issue now is 2 years old, and the car served meanwhile as a donor for sheetmetal on another LeBaron which again already is history, yesterday I did make a visit to the old boy.

The reason behind my visit was, that when the trouble with this car started I bought it all new ignition parts, among them Taylor Wires which I thought I could use on my Daytona.

Now comes the interesting part. With the wires, wich were brand new at the time, I did a maximum of let's say 10 miles, until it would not have started anymore.

I inspected them and all 4 of them had at the terminal end where the rotor passes a strong burn mark like you would have tried to laser cut them!!! The burn marks are so strong that even sanding them does not make them disappear!

WTF was going on there??? This issue is one I never solved and it bugs me. Anyone an idea???

[MopàrBCN]

This is an old issue and I never got to solve it. The car's history is that for a good while no it's bein degraded to be a donor - and finally it's engine is going into a n/a Lebaron of a fellow board member here in Spain.

And guess what, he found the problem at the first try.

It was a loose contact in the 14 way connector. As easy as this!!!!

I obviously did try all the circuits for resistance to check for lose contacts. And thus I never had found anything wrong on this side, and this guy checks, finds the fault and starts the car after 3 years and half disassembled on the first try......

Thought to share this with you guys.....