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Thread: Small spline clutch options....

  1. #1
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Small spline clutch options....

    I'm considering putting a more street friendly clutch in my Van. I was told the one that's in it is a 6 puck. It's almost an on off switch, stiff and does not like to be modulated when stuck in stop and go traffic.

    What's your experiences with a stock feeling conventional style clutch that can hold the torque + weight of the van?

    I'd like mostly input for ones used in vans due to the extra weight. One that might work well with a lighter vehicle could slip with a heavier rig since the lighter vehicle is more likely to blow the tires off vs slipping.

    Looking for advice then will weigh my options.

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Just call Chris from TU and be done with it. His clutches are the best out there. I have one of his 6 puck non-sprung units in my wife's Daytona, and I'm amazed with the drivability vs. clamping ability.

  3. #3
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Adjust your driving style.

  4. #4
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Just call Chris from TU and be done with it. His clutches are the best out there. I have one of his 6 puck non-sprung units in my wife's Daytona, and I'm amazed with the drivability vs. clamping ability.
    I appreciate the input. I am not at all interested in a non sprung disc and would prefer organic / stock type material vs kevlar or other materials. I have a feeling a clutch type that I desire doesn't exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Adjust your driving style.

    Why even bother posting this? Adjust my driving style? What's my driving style got to do with stop and go traffic and my preference for clutch feel / behavior?
    Just had to get your minimum words per day posted or something?

    Sheesh

  5. #5
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk618 View Post
    Why even bother posting this? Adjust my driving style? What's my driving style got to do with stop and go traffic and my preference for clutch feel / behavior?
    Just had to get your minimum words per day posted or something?

    Sheesh
    While it is possible to adjust your driving style so you can be a little more comfortably on stop and go traffic, it is not possible for your power goal and your preference of clutch feel/behavior to meet.

    Your car have a 6 punk clutch, and I assume ceramic.
    You want 300whp. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...per&highlight=
    Most 2.5 turbo out the that making 300whp also makes around 400 ft lb of torque at the wheels, which means the clutch will need to hold 480 lb ft of torque.

    Your major vendor choices of clutch are these, both vendors listed torque rating.

    http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/perf...35_97_163.html
    http://www.specclutch.com/cars/Dodge...na/1989/Single http://www.specclutch.com/products

    Your clutch material choices are
    1. Stock OEM, good to about 250lb ft
    2. Kevlar
    3. Ceramic
    4. Feramic

    I had all 4 type of clutches, I even had one clutch with one side organic and one side iron. 1 and 2 will not hold the power you want. 3 and 4 will drive you like describe, unless you change your driving style.

    OEM clutch drive really nice.
    Kevlar will probably last a long time, but it doesn't like heat. One over heat and the torque holding will go down.
    Ceramic is a good balance of wear and torque holding.
    Feramic is race only as it will wear out faster than your engine needs its 5000 miles oil change.

    As for sprung hub or not, unless it is an OEM clutch, I will not have another sprung hub. One hub related failure is enough.






    Less than 5000 miles.

    My current clutch, holds over 400ft lb at the wheel with zero issue.
    Last edited by tryingbe; 05-14-2018 at 01:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    I was amazed at how well the solid hub disk drives. I'm glad some folks on here suggested it, as I'll never go back either. The clutch in my wife's Daytona is pretty similar to stock and it holds way more power. I do agree with Harry that there's no getting around the physics of the whole thing.

  7. #7
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    +1 on the solid hub. When I needed a clutch for the GLHS I called Chris at TU and he suggested a solid hub. I was very skeptical, but I went with his suggestion and was glad I did. My experience is just like Brians - very similar engagement to a stock clutch. I'm convinced!

  8. #8
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    The clutch in the van is a Spec Stage 3 6 puck sprung hub. I know because I know the original owner of the clutch and the person he sold it to. I helped install it in the 1st van it was in. It was sold to the 2nd owner and put in this van because the original owner bought a large spline trans and therefore needed a large spline clutch.

    Yes they bite more quickly and in stop and go for a normal driving person can be a bit aggrevating.

    I have to agree though with Tryingbe somewhat. An adjustment in driving style will help. In traffic stay back so you don't have to come to a complete stop and mess with the clutch. When the cars move if your stopped let them get 2 car lengths out before you go. These clutches do not like to be slipped. It'll destroy it and the pressure plate. But some care and adjustment to driving style and they'll give a long life and hold a bunch of power. It's the trade-off of having a modified vehicle.

    A Mclaren F1 you don't touch the gas when letting the clutch out, you get rolling and then give it gas. If you give it gas you fry the clutch instantly. So we're not the only ones that need to adjust to a different clutch that'll hold the power.

  9. #9
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    The clutch in the van is a Spec Stage 3 6 puck sprung hub. I know because I know the original owner of the clutch and the person he sold it to. I helped install it in the 1st van it was in. It was sold to the 2nd owner and put in this van because the original owner bought a large spline trans and therefore needed a large spline clutch.

    Yes they bite more quickly and in stop and go for a normal driving person can be a bit aggrevating.

    I have to agree though with Tryingbe somewhat. An adjustment in driving style will help. In traffic stay back so you don't have to come to a complete stop and mess with the clutch. When the cars move if your stopped let them get 2 car lengths out before you go. These clutches do not like to be slipped. It'll destroy it and the pressure plate. But some care and adjustment to driving style and they'll give a long life and hold a bunch of power. It's the trade-off of having a modified vehicle.

    A Mclaren F1 you don't touch the gas when letting the clutch out, you get rolling and then give it gas. If you give it gas you fry the clutch instantly. So we're not the only ones that need to adjust to a different clutch that'll hold the power.
    This advice will change the life of anyone not already doing that.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    I have been buying upgraded TM clutches since 88, everything from 2 diaphrams riveted together (held but stretched the cable and was a PIA!) to McCleod, Clutchmasters, Centerforce, custom made 695FTLB rated dual disc, Spec-everything! The current generation TU offerings are light years ahead of all that old sh!t. Super light pedal pressure, easy to modulate and holds all of it. Wasn't that many yeas ago such a clutch didn't exist for our cars.

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  11. #11
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    I have been buying upgraded TM clutches since 88, everything from 2 diaphrams riveted together (held but stretched the cable and was a PIA!) to McCleod, Clutchmasters, Centerforce, custom made 695FTLB rated dual disc, Spec-everything! The current generation TU offerings are light years ahead of all that old sh!t. Super light pedal pressure, easy to modulate and holds all of it. Wasn't that many yeas ago such a clutch didn't exist for our cars.
    Indeed. Even when I came on the scene, a 4 puck clutch was an on/off switch. I had to let the cars in front of me get 2-3 car lengths up and usually spun the tires a bit when taking off. It was a fine line between stalling and spinning on all season tires.

  12. #12

    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    I will add I have two different 6-puck clutchs. In my daily driver I have a ClutchNet small spline 6-puck sprung hub disc with their red pressure plate. Stop and go has not been an issue. I also have a TU 6-puck large spline sprung hub with a purple pressure plate and driving it in stop and go was never an issue for me. (for the record, I would like to try a unsprung hub sometime...)

    I will note that I just picked up a 5-sp car with a conventional disc and noticed that it slips more than I am used to... So my driving style has adapted.

    A while back I was researching the materials used for clutches. Feramic (aka sintered iron?) was race only, but they are now using it in some of the stock from the factory high torque trucks. I would guess that the material may now have a longer life... The advantage of Feramic over ceramic is the coefficent of dynamic friction vs static friction. With ceramic there is a big difference which gives it a "grabby" feel. With Feramic, the dynamic vs static coefficient is much closer so it behaves more like a conventional clutch...

    Bottom line, I would talk to the manufactures and see if their Feramic clutches now have a longer lifespan...

  13. #13
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Quote Originally Posted by firehawk618 View Post
    I'm considering putting a more street friendly clutch in my Van. I was told the one that's in it is a 6 puck. It's almost an on off switch, stiff and does not like to be modulated when stuck in stop and go traffic.

    What's your experiences with a stock feeling conventional style clutch that can hold the torque + weight of the van?

    I'd like mostly input for ones used in vans due to the extra weight. One that might work well with a lighter vehicle could slip with a heavier rig since the lighter vehicle is more likely to blow the tires off vs slipping.

    Looking for advice then will weigh my options.

    Thank you.
    I have a tu blue plate and 6 puck. (aluminum flywheel daytona )
    Downtown Toronto traffic

    It grabs hard,(controllable/ there is some space to slip)
    but has never felt stiff ie petal effort seems stock. Perhaps there is something else going on.

  14. #14
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Big fat Daytona here. I started out with a Spec stage 3 which chattered a lot. I'm now running a Turbos Unleashed yellow plate with a 6-puck non-sprung disc. Traffic every day, heavy car, drives really nice for what it is. It's come up in conversation before about the sprung versus solid hub and the consensus that I got was for organic (stock) material, go sprung. For ceramic or any type of puck clutch, go solid.

    I'm sure you know this already, but nothing will drive as smoothly and easily as a stock clutch. It's just not physically possible. You're trying to hold more power with the same diameter disc. Increased clamping force is the only way to do it. But Turbo Unleashed has really gone to lengths to make a high-horsepower clutch that drives nicely. Give them a call.
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
    2003 Neon SXT

  15. #15
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    I've run all kinds of clutches. Stock, Kevlar, ceramic, dual diaphragm ceramic, dual friction.... 88 Shelby Z, 3115#, 225whp/291ftlb

    By far the best clutch I've personally owned/used is my TU 6-puck purple (now black) plate. Pedal is almost as light as stock, engagement point isn't too low and for a modified pressure plate and a ceramic clutch it's got a decent engagement throw. I run a "race lightened " steel flywheel and this combo is fairly smooth. When I had an aluminum flywheel is was more "jerky".

    I have had people who have never driven a ceramic clutch jump in my car and be able to drive it with little issue.

    2 things to know: it *will* chatter if you try to slip it, it *will* grab if you release the pedal too fast. As others have said, in traffic I would leave it in 1st and actually ride the brakes a little while idling along. Keeps the geartrain backlash to a minimum as well.

  16. #16
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    I have the TU 6 puck purple plate. Had some chatter when I first installed it. I greatly reduced the chatter by installing a PolyBushings polyurethane front motor mount. FWIW.

  17. #17
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Small spline clutch options....

    Walk over to my house and try several of my clutches.
    Stock clutch car doesn't barely runs (sorta a parts car). Was very hard to get on the trailer. Its the only stock clutch I have ever driven (and only 30 feet).

    I have 2 running solid hub cars here.

    4 puck with a 300k mile stock T1/3.0 plate. The 4 puck is worn to the rivets. The plate is deeply grooved. Still held for a low 12 second pass last year. I put it back together and will run till failure.
    This is my daily driver the last 8 years living back in Greater Seattle.

    3 puck with a dual unmodified diaphragm (by TU). Pretty sure this guy started all the solid hub love disengages at the floor. Extended clutch arm to make it easier on the leg.

    I switched back to stock steel flywheels to fight crankshaft harmonics and I attribute this to more axle breakage. The aluminum flywheels do not let the disc grab as well and have less kinetic energy obviously.

    --------------------------
    If I didn't know what clutch you already had, I would have suggested a 6 puck.
    There is a setup right now that you can run a very strong plate with organic disc and hold decent power. Several are using it with race discs. Heat still won't be your friend. Van will make more heat.
    Brent
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