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Thread: MAP & CTS sensor questions

  1. #61
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by johnl View Post
    Wow, what a journey. Glad you toughed it out. Scamps (and Rampages) forever!

    Yeah, I'm hoping by posting, I help somebody else eventually. Even though the last issue was really my own fault. There was a point I was about ready to take a torch to it. But I could never do that. Had this truck since high school. 29 years. I will own it until I die... Not only do I love the truck, but there are so many memories in this truck. You can't put a price on that. Thinking back on everywhere and everything I have done in this truck. No amount of money could replace it...

  2. #62
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    I was there, this week, on my Lebaron... lol, but so worth it now that it's starting and running.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  3. #63
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Glad to hear the good news. What boost level was the lean AFR at? WOT?

  4. #64
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Glad to hear the good news. What boost level was the lean AFR at? WOT?
    It wasn't in boost. That was cruising down the highway at 55. Showing about 15.2.

    At 8 lb boost it's currently showing about 13.1

    Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

  5. #65
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Right. When you're in boost at 8PSI and 13.1AFR, is it at WOT?

  6. #66
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Right. When you're in boost at 8PSI and 13.1AFR, is it at WOT?

    Yes it is.

  7. #67
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    For the short term Greg you might want to consider increasing your fuel pressure a bit. Try adding another 3psi.
    Reset your ecu adaptives, and try that at WOT. It should be better. And you could continue to add a bit more fuel pressure.

    Better safe than broken. At least you could get yourself into a safe AFR, and happy zone for boost level.
    Wayne H.

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  8. #68
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
    Yes it is.
    That is great. You are flowing a lot of air to get it that lean from what I can recall. Sometimes it ca;be pretty lean at part throttle and lower boost, but WOT at 8psi means it’s time to move the PE table way up. nice work.

  9. #69
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    For the short term Greg you might want to consider increasing your fuel pressure a bit. Try adding another 3psi.
    Reset your ecu adaptives, and try that at WOT. It should be better. And you could continue to add a bit more fuel pressure.

    Better safe than broken. At least you could get yourself into a safe AFR, and happy zone for boost level.
    I did turn up fuel pressure. I'm running about 65 psi at idle right now to get where I am.

    Unfortunately, until my friend gets me back a socketed SMEC, I'm stuck. I'm running a bone stock 2.5 T1 unit right now.

    It does excite me that I'm moving that much more air. I ported the head myself, and I took out a lot of material. It certainly seems to be a lot freer revving than the 2.5 in my Daytona, which is bone stock.

    Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

  10. #70
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
    I did turn up fuel pressure. I'm running about 65 psi at idle right now to get where I am.

    Unfortunately, until my friend gets me back a socketed SMEC, I'm stuck. I'm running a bone stock 2.5 T1 unit right now.

    It does excite me that I'm moving that much more air. I ported the head myself, and I took out a lot of material. It certainly seems to be a lot freer revving than the 2.5 in my Daytona, which is bone stock.

    Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk
    I might have missed that. I wouldn't set it higher than 65 psi.
    But, I would change your injectors out back to the 52 #/hr (+40's), and start with a base fuel pressure of about 32-33 psi. That should get you into a better starting point. Tweak it up a bit if you are still lean under boost. Somehere between 30-35 I think you'll find a safe point while you wait for your socketed ecu.

    Sometimes when hou are waiting on someone like that, it might take some time. And this saves time in the long run because you'll be back on the +40's once you can change cals again.
    Wayne H.

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    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
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  11. #71
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    I wanted to post a little update, and so I don't get folks off track, I'll keep it in this thread. Scamp has been running really well last 3 weeks. Went for several hour long drives, and it was perfect. Been to two different car shows and got lots of compliments on it. My buddy finally had time to finish socketing my SMEC, so I have that back. He came down to my place on Saturday, and we were going to a show about 15 minutes from my place. Started off fine, then about half way there the Scamp started bucking and kicking, and went WAY lean. Pulled over, and it was idling like crap, and still showing about 17:1 on the AFR gauge. Shut it off, waiting a couple minutes and fired it up. AFR's went back to normal, but it had a bad miss. Tach never dropped, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't ignition related. So we turned around and I nursed it back home. It was randomly missing the entire time, but AFR's stayed right at 14.8-15.0. Got home and started trying to diagnose it. Then I saw something weird. Sitting there idling, it would be doing fine, then we would hear the idle change, and it would start leaning out. Going from 14.9 to 18+. It would take 10-15 seconds for this transition to happen, then it would stay there for a few seconds(above 18.0 my AFR gauge blanks to ---), the slowly come back down to 14.9 over the next 10-15 seconds. Run fine there for a few minutes, and then start all over again. Fuel pressure stayed right at 65 psi the entire time, so I know that wasn't it. I let it idle and go through this process for about 1/2 an hour. Then I changed out the ECU. 3 different ECU's all did the same thing, so I know it isn't an ECU problem. I had the laptop hooked up, and it was showing lean, so the signal was getting back to the ECU. After messing with it for over an hour, I pulled it in the garage and let it cool off.

    Just so happens my new flow-matched 804 injectors from Chris at TU showed up Friday afternoon, so I installed them Saturday evening after all this happened. Since the injectors in it were "supposed" to be TII's, but they were bought off ebay like 10 years ago... Started it up, and let it run for another 1/2 hour to get good and hot, let the fan cycle several times, and it never went lean again??? I have not taken it for a drive yet. Got the cold from H*ll right now, and spent most of Sunday in bed. Hoping to take it for a drive tonight.

    Anybody ever seen a set of injectors do something like that? Either that, or maybe the WB O2 sensor isn't sending back the correct narrowband signal? I thought to eliminate that possibility, I might just stick a stock O2 sensor in the exhaust housing and let the engine run off that for a while. I have my wideband downstream where it should be.

    That's pretty much all my friend and I could come up with that would cause something like that. All the sensor readings I was monitoring with MPScan looked good. But if anybody else had other suggestions, I'm all ears. As of right now, the engine is set up with a stock 2.5 TI ECU, 804 injectors, and a stock MAP. I've dialed boost back to about 8 psi.

    Hopefully I can update later tonight after a drive. It's supposed to be nice tonight. Temps are down some here, so the turbo ought to be really happy...
    Last edited by 83scamp; 06-05-2018 at 08:04 AM.

  12. #72
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    No codes?

  13. #73
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    No codes?
    Nope.

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  14. #74
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    That's a tough one. Have you replaced your fuel pump recently? I've read symptoms like this before and it ended up being a ripped hose from the pump to the body of the hanger.

  15. #75
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    That's a tough one. Have you replaced your fuel pump recently? I've read symptoms like this before and it ended up being a ripped hose from the pump to the body of the hanger.
    No. I had it out recently to check it and adjust the float arm to get my fuel gauge more accurate, but everything was fine when I pulled it.

    Like I said, fuel pressure never wavers during this. I'm hoping it was just old injectors giving up. I'll hopefully find out later tonight.

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  16. #76
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Got a couple of test drives in last night. First one wasn't good. Missed and bucked, but that was the socketed ECU with the OE chip in it. My friend was worried it wouldn't run correctly because he said he applied a lot of heat to the chip to get all the solder out and save it. May have overheated it. What clued me in was after the poor drive, I brought it back into the garage and started checking basics. The timing was off again. With the CTS plugged in the timing was at about 8* advanced. When I unplugged the CTS, it actually advance to about 14*, right at the edge of the window! Never seen one do that!

    Second drive I swapped in another bone stock ecu, reset the timing, and it went great. AFR's right where they should be. Pulled hard, and never missed a beat. I'm beginning to suspect that my ebay TII injectors were really early TI injectors...

    I've got a copy of the MP 2.5 TI Stage I tune from the code repository. I'm going to load that onto a chip and see if the socketed SMEC works with that.

  17. #77
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Glad to hear you're making some forward progress.

  18. #78
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Figured I'd post one final(I hope) update to this thread.

    As anybody that went to SDAC this year knows, I got the Scamp fixed and running sweet. Last issue with a random miss ended up being an ignition coil failing. Only thing I can figure is after running for a little bit it was getting hot and not putting out enough spark. Replaced it with an Accel Superstock coil, and all my issues went away. So if you seem to be having a random miss, don't rule out one of our 30+ year old coils failing!

    Drove the 200 miles to SDAC, and managed 31+ mpg there and back. Shoot I even managed 24.7 while flailing on it at the autoX & drag day!

    Set a new personal best at the drag strip: 14.518 @ 96.77 mph. Not bad for street tires and only 10 psi of boost. As a comparison, in Memphis with the carbed motor, I was slower in the 1/4 than I was in the 1/8th here.... This thing pulls like a freight train all the way to 6K. I am absolutely thrilled with it now....

  19. #79
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Congrats Greg!
    Glad to hear it all worked out.
    I thought you were going to tow it to SDAC!
    Wayne H.

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    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
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  20. #80
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Congrats Greg!
    Glad to hear it all worked out.
    I thought you were going to tow it to SDAC!
    I was, but after finding the coil issue, I decided to drive. Glad I did.

    We avoided the interstates as much as possible and found some really fun roads in Southern Indiana to drive that made the trip all the more fun. Beautiful country and excellent twisty curvy roads. Lots of fun!

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