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Thread: MAP & CTS sensor questions

  1. #41
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    I generally use nothing. I've seen many people use hot glue.

  2. #42
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I generally use nothing. I've seen many people use hot glue.
    I didn't think about hot glue. Thanks.

    My fear of not doing anything is what happens if you get caught out in a rainstorm? I try to drive it only on nice days, but I'm not afraid to get it wet. They seal those things up for a reason. I mean, look at one when you pull them apart, they are filthy inside.

    I just don't want to see another one go bad because I didn't take necessary precautions.

    Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

  3. #43
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    I'd agree about not running it without any protection these days. I've only had problems a hand full of times in 10 years or more, but it can happen. I would suggest that for most cars, when it's bad enough for the water to get at the chip, you probably shouldn't be driving anyway. Either way, next time, I'll probably use some RTV and an chip extender.

  4. #44
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    The one I had in the Lebaron had nothing, was in there for 4 years or so daily driving year round, no problems.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
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    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  5. #45
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Just wanted to post a quick update. I took the advice presented on here, and basically took the 2.5 back to stock. Installed a set of used TII injectors I had laying around, and borrowed a 2 bar MAP from a buddy, then plugged in one of the factory SMEC's I just purchased, and the truck runs pretty decent. I think the ECU is still doing a little learning, it's not a "stock" engine after all, but I was able to go for a short drive with it around my neighborhood last night. I knew it was really low on gas, so I wasn't going to push it.

    I went and filled my gas can, and dumped it in, so now I at least have enough gas to get to the nearest Marathon to fill it up with premium. I have boost set at about 12 psi right now, I might back that down a little. I'm going to put some miles on it this way before putting the +40's and 3 bar back in it with a new socketed ECU.

    There is a cars and coffee meet Saturday morning in the next city over from where I live, I'm planning on driving over to that... We'll just have to see how it goes.

  6. #46
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Well, One step forward, 10 steps back for me seems to be the norm now... Barely made it to the gas station. Truck is still running like crap, and I'm out of ideas.

    I know it's in the truck. I can put the exact same SMEC in my Daytona, and it runs fine. I'm just out of ideas what to check.

    Now with the stock injectors and 2 bar, the thing is running horribly lean, backfiring like crazy, and I can't get ignition timing right to save my @ss. I even replaced the HEP hoping that was it. I checked the cam/crank/I-shaft timing 6 different times this weekend. It is spot on. But when I go to time the engine, and unplug the CTS, I absolutely cannot get the timing mark on the flywheel in the timing window. I even rolled it around to make sure it was in the right spot, and it is. With the marks on the front of the engine lined up, the flywheel mark is at perfect 0. I start the engine, unplug the CTS, and start backing off the timing to get it in the window, and the engine dies before I ever get there. When I have it set so it idles decent, it won't grab when I blip the throttle, and if I hold it open at all, it backfires really bad. The one time I did try and drive it, as soon as I let off the gas, it backfired badly out the exhaust there as well. What do I try next?

    At this point, I completely regret ever messing with this thing. I should have left it carbed. May not have been fast, but at least I could drive it, and it was reliable.

    I just don't get why it ran virtually flawless last summer, and now I can't get it out of my driveway?

    According to MPScan, I'm getting good readings back from all the sensors. The ECU is happy, no codes there except for the CTS when I unplug it. When I drove it to the gas station, I did get an overboost fault, so I dialed my MBC way back to avoid that. I haven't seen that code since.
    Last edited by 83scamp; 04-30-2018 at 08:22 AM.

  7. #47
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    So the base setting on the distributor is above what you can see in the timing window? And you can't bring it down enough to see it? You are using a newer style distributor with the short cap, right? Not the tall old style?

    Probably been asked before, but fuel pressure?
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  8. #48
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    So the base setting on the distributor is above what you can see in the timing window? And you can't bring it down enough to see it? You are using a newer style distributor with the short cap, right? Not the tall old style?

    Probably been asked before, but fuel pressure?
    Yes on the distributor. It is the new style. I cannot get it in the window. The when I try, it just dies.

    Fuel pressure is at 52 psi at idle. About 60 psi static Key on, engine off.

  9. #49
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
    According to MPScan, I'm getting good readings back from all the sensors. The ECU is happy, no codes there except for the CTS when I unplug it. When I drove it to the gas station, I did get an overboost fault, so I dialed my MBC way back to avoid that. I haven't seen that code since.
    This Sucks....I can feel your pain across the Great Lakes!!!! Did you backprobe the sensors just to be sure?
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  10. #50
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    I'm assuming that you have a nice ported two piece and exhaust to go with the ported head? High flowing exhaust? It'll run lean with a stock cal when driving along given that hardware. My old Omni had great difficulty running well under normal driving conditions with a stock setup.

    You do have an AFR gauge right? I would bump up the pumping efficiency, and perhaps the fuel part throttle table down low to help alleviate some of these issues.

  11. #51
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Well, I am a complete idiot. I am man enough to admit that.

    Decided to give it another try tonight. The whole timing issue was driving me nuts. So I decided to go against everything my gut was telling me.

    I started it, and cranked a bunch of advanced into the distributor. Guess what? The timing mark showed up. Yep, I had it so retarded it was below zero! I have never had one of these motors run with it retarded that much. Idle cleaned up, and it revs. I took it around the block, and other than it still running a little lean, it seems to be ok. At this point, I'm assuming my used "TII" injectors I bought really aren't...

    I have a set of 803's coming from TU. Hopefully they take care of that. I'm still holding my breath, I've thought several times now that I had this, and the next day it ran like crap, so the verdict is still out. But this is the best it's run so far. I'll post an update once the new injectors arrive, and I can do a good test drive.

    I guess I got so involved, that I couldn't see the obvious right in front of my face. (forest for the trees kind of thing). Looking back, the signs we're there, backfiring, no power to accelerate, etc. I just refused to believe this engine could run as well as it did with the timing that retarded.

    I was my own worst enemy.

    Thank you to those who have stuck with me through my stupidity. I hope my trials help somebody else to not make this mistake.

    And for those who doubt, yes these engines will sit there and idle all day with the timing below zero.

    Now,all that being said, I still believe there was an issue with the socketed SMEC I took out. Because it ran like crap before I touched anything. We'll soon find out as soon as my friend gets one of the new SMEC's socketed and back to me.

    More to follow...

    Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

  12. #52
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Glad to hear it. Why the 803s? Just keeping it stock style? Either way, if you like how it runs now, just wait until you start tuning for driveability.

    As for doing stupid stuff, I just had to take the front of my engine all apart this past weekend because I installed the int. shaft sprocket backwards. Talk about dumb.

  13. #53
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Glad to hear it. Why the 803s? Just keeping it stock style? Either way, if you like how it runs now, just wait until you start tuning for driveability.

    As for doing stupid stuff, I just had to take the front of my engine all apart this past weekend because I installed the int. shaft sprocket backwards. Talk about dumb.
    803's because right now I'm using a bone stock 89 2.5 TI SMEC. I'm going to run that for a little bit until my friend has time to get one of my other computers socketed. Then the +40's and 3 bar will go back in.

    I figure the 803's will make a good backup set for my Daytona. It's all stock right now, and I don't plan on doing anything crazy with it because it's my DD. Hopefully in another year, it will get an engine rebuild, front mount, and a little increase in boost to make it more fun. But I need it reliable.

    Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

  14. #54
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    That's awesome. What an incredibly cool DD.

  15. #55
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    That's awesome. What an incredibly cool DD.

    Yeah, I love my Daytona. First one I've ever owned, and I know why folks love them. Very comfortable to drive, and fun in the corners.

    A bit off topic, but... As most of you know, I changed jobs in mid-February. I used to drive an hour to a small, one stop light, hick town(literally), to go to work. The new job is only a 35 minute drive, and to the largest city in NE Indiana. Outside of the drivers here driving like a bunch of idiots with their hair on fire, the thing I notice is the change in vehicles. Before it was pickups, and medium sized, mostly 4-8 year old sedans. Now I travel with brand new BMW's, Caddy SUV's, Mercedes Benz's, and other high end vehicles. I look at all those folks and just laugh. Their driving an $80K+ car with stupid payments, and not getting to work any faster than me in my 30 year old Dodge that is long since paid for. Sure, they may be quieter, and maybe somewhat more comfortable, but I don't care. I plan on keeping this Daytona for as long as I can. I just put all new steering in it, and hopefully some time this summer it will get all new suspension bushings from Johnny. Plus a consistent 30+ mpg doesn't hurt. I know all those fancy SUV's aren't getting near that...

  16. #56
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Glad you figured it out. We've all done stupid things, trust me lol.

    Depending on how ported the head is, it may still be lean up top on a stock cal.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  17. #57
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    Glad you figured it out. We've all done stupid things, trust me lol.

    Depending on how ported the head is, it may still be lean up top on a stock cal.
    It's not hogged to the max, but I did a fair amount of porting and smoothing. Spent a lot of time on the transition from the intake to the head. When I was done, I bolted the intake to the head without a gasket, and you could not feel the transition. I think it breathes pretty well. I know a lot of folks say the 2.5 doesn't like to rev up top, but this engine goes to 6K without any fuss. So I must have done something right... I'm certainly not a professional porter, so I just eyeballed what I thought looked good. I know the 782 ports suck compared to the 445. I was amazed how much material I had to remove to get a nice smooth transition, in the bowl area especially.

  18. #58
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Well, I finally have some good news to report. After getting the timing sorted, and rebuilding the steering rack, I was able to take the Scamp out last night for its first real drive. I had to bump the fuel pressure a little more because the stock SMEC doesn't handle the ported top end very well, but I managed to get it in a reasonable AFR range. It's leaner than I want to run any real boost at, but it runs really good once again!!! I've limited myself to 8 psi until I can get a socketed SMEC back from my electronics friend, I don't want to fry a piston, but at least it's drivable, and behaving!!!

    Last night I was seeing 14.9-15.2 AFR at cruise, which should give me decent mpg's. When it got into boost it was holding 12.8-13.1. That's a little leaner than I want to run any serious boost at, so that's why I backed my Grainger valve out to about minimum...

    Once my friend gets time to finish socketing one of my spare SMECs, I'll put the +40's back in, and see what the tune does from there... I'm just not that good at soldering to trust myself doing a circuit board like that...

  19. #59
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Great News!!!
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432

  20. #60
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    Re: MAP & CTS sensor questions

    Wow, what a journey. Glad you toughed it out. Scamps (and Rampages) forever!
    John Laing "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle." -- Alexis de Tocqueville "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary." --Ayn Rand "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that." -- Justice Antonin Scalia

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