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Thread: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

  1. #1
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    Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    I have helped a few people locally get a turbonator tune know their cars. In the summer they run great but in the winter when the temperature is below 40 they all seem to run really rich. Does anyone know how to properly tune that out? These are 87 T2 and a 91 T3 cal so different templates both the same outcome.

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    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADVAN View Post
    I have helped a few people locally get a turbonator tune know their cars. In the summer they run great but in the winter when the temperature is below 40 they all seem to run really rich. Does anyone know how to properly tune that out? These are 87 T2 and a 91 T3 cal so different templates both the same outcome.
    Do you mean even after the engine is up to operating temp?
    The startup and warm up would be richer with the lower ambient temps, but I think you mean driving?

    So then maybe it is something with your intake air temp? There is a richening factor for lower intake air temps on those cals with IAT enabled.
    Try toggling it off in your turbonator setup?
    Wayne H.

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    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    what are their coolant temps when its really rich?

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  4. #4
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Unfortunately I don't know exact details yet, but I can assume they were warmed up as I know they drove them to and from work. But I will double check, maybe it is just the initial warm up. I did notice Waynes mini Cal he posted had leaner cold enrichment tables than the base template does

  5. #5
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Cold start was off for me, a/f was in the 9's and I live in AZ.

    I had to change the cold start curve A, B, and C to make it leaner.

  6. #6
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    thanks guys i will try the cold start curves and see how they like it.

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    what are their coolant temps when its really rich?

    Brian
    This is THE key question. If the coolant temps are low, you'll always have a really rich AFR in the winter in cold climates. Engines need to run really rich when it's cold out to stay running. As the engine warms up to operating temp it should lean out to normal. When it's super cold you may find that they run a little richer under some conditions anyway. It's enough to notice in your MPG, but nothing too crazy while driving around.

    Years ago, I did very extensive driveability tuning on my Black Omni. It was perfect in all weather conditions on startup. Unfortunately, I believe that cal was lost to computer changes and the fact that there were a few huge leaps forward in tuning software with no real provision for backwards compatibility.

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    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    How long is their drive to work? Sometimes it take a while for these engines to warm up, when the cooling system is in proper order and ambients are that cold.

    It is likely to be the Cold Enrichment tables.
    Rob M.
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Thanks guys they were saying like black smoke rich AFRs in the 9s, where the stock cals didn't do that, i will have to play around and compare some things to the stock templates that are available in MPTune

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    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADVAN View Post
    Thanks guys they were saying like black smoke rich AFRs in the 9s, where the stock cals didn't do that, i will have to play around and compare some things to the stock templates that are available in MPTune
    Are they sure about what size injector they told you?
    Something definitely isn't right if after a 30 min ride the afr is in the 9's!
    Wayne H.

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  11. #11
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Are they sure about what size injector they told you?
    Something definitely isn't right if after a 30 min ride the afr is in the 9's!
    Possible, the weird thing is that it was great in the summer.

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    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    what are their coolant temps when its really rich?

    Brian
    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADVAN View Post
    Unfortunately I don't know exact details yet,
    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    This is THE key question. If the coolant temps are low, you'll always have a really rich AFR in the winter in cold climates.
    dont even bother messing around in the calibration until you know what the coolant temps are when the car is "warmed up".

    do you have a scanner? do you have a sci/ftdi cable for mpscan?

    what is the dash gauge saying for temp? aftermarket coolant temp gauge?

    you need to know what the coolant temp is and what the temp sensor is feeding the ECU to calibrate those curves properly.

    if you start changing the warmup curves and the thermostat isnt closing fully and/or the coolant temp sensor is a bit off, youll be chasing your tail as the conditions change. mechanicals and values need to be known first.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  13. #13
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator_wiki Cals rich in the Winter?

    You definitely need to get some log data.

    While I've never experienced it personally, something is making me wonder if the fuel pressure regulator might have a ruptured diaphragm. You could pull the vacuum line off to check that, see if fuel is coming out that nipple.
    Wayne H.

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    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
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