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Thread: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

  1. #61
    TIIFIIIWII Turbo Mopar Vendor DodgeZ's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of poring today, TU Header

    They say that shorty headers don't get you any gains over the factory SRT clamshells headers. You have to go long tubes for gains. I'd note I have a set of low mileage ones for sell off a hellcat and mid pipes.

    The opinion that I got from the Engine Masters video is that the headers were way bigger than needed. So smashing them didn't change the size much as it squeezed out or smaller size was still big enough. Clearly the shape didn't matter.

    I love the engine masters series because it cuts through the mystical "facts" from long lived legends (Like how you can't run a Felpro head gasket) and gets down to real dyno numbers.

    I'd bet AJ's work won't change his dyno numbers. Just a guess. Looks great though!
    2018 Viper runs 9s

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    Re: 4 hours of poring today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by DodgeZ View Post

    The opinion that I got from the Engine Masters video is that the headers were way bigger than needed. So smashing them didn't change the size much as it squeezed out or smaller size was still big enough.
    Without any other info that would have been my opinion as well, mtr didn't need that large of a diam header in the first place.

    If I could have asked a question;

    Did they first dyno with different sized (primary diam) headers to establish most efficient exhaust flow before test?

    One thing I have found to be consistent;

    Exhaust is like life, it always finds a way........

  3. #63
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of poring today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by mopar-tech View Post
    It all depends on what your baseline is. 318 manifolds embrace the suck, lots to be had there going to headers.. The factory SRT are almost a shorty header so you gain less going to a true header..

    Long tubes tend to make the most ponies.
    I built a Shelby Dakota motor in my driveway for a local SoCal SDAC member like 20 yeas ago, IIRC (tougher to do these days) When porting the heads and manifolds(he didn't want to swap to headers because of Cali emmissions laws) was a huge flow obstructing speedhump in the exhaust ports. What's the point of that area of the port, any idea?

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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  4. #64
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of poring today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    I built a Shelby Dakota motor in my driveway for a local SoCal SDAC member like 20 yeas ago, IIRC (tougher to do these days) When porting the heads and manifolds(he didn't want to swap to headers because of Cali emmissions laws) was a huge flow obstructing speedhump in the exhaust ports. What's the point of that area of the port, any idea?
    EGR, the shelby dakota heads just didn't have the holes drilled for it but same casting heads still had the humps.

  5. #65
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    Re: 4 hours of poring today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by mopar-tech View Post
    It all depends on what your baseline is. 318 manifolds embrace the suck, lots to be had there going to headers.. The factory SRT are almost a shorty header so you gain less going to a true header..

    Long tubes tend to make the most ponies.
    I meant that installing the factory srt headers on a 5.7 is worth a decent bit. I installed long tubes on a 5.7 challenger. Have to be a contortionist to tighten all the bolts...

  6. #66
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Progress on the head today, about four hours of grinding and polishing. Did 2 hours of it after dark outside with a good LED light. I haven't ported after dark in at least a decade. Not sure if it's gonna be better or worse in the daylight I raised the ish outta the roofs in the exhaust ports, kinda regretting the decision to use stock sized valves. On a deadline tho. Gonna use all new valves and 4 new guides on the hot valves, they were pretty loose. Intakes are fine like usual tho.
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    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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  7. #67

    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Looks great AJ! Wish I had the time and skills to do porting and welding. You did or didn't say you were going to get flow numbers for it? Interested to see how well it will flow.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  8. #68
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Progress on the head today, about four hours of grinding and polishing. Did 2 hours of it after dark outside with a good LED light. I haven't ported after dark in at least a decade. Not sure if it's gonna be better or worse in the daylight I raised the ish outta the roofs in the exhaust ports, kinda regretting the decision to use stock sized valves. On a deadline tho. Gonna use all new valves and 4 new guides on the hot valves, they were pretty loose. Intakes are fine like usual tho.
    Grab the locking valve guides from cindy to prevent them from dropping. dont forget "hemi" valve stem seals.

  9. #69
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Good stuff AJ
    John Laing "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle." -- Alexis de Tocqueville "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary." --Ayn Rand "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that." -- Justice Antonin Scalia

  10. #70
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by masterjr33 View Post
    Grab the locking valve guides from cindy to prevent them from dropping. dont forget "hemi" valve stem seals.
    My machine shop gets me C-clipped guides. I paid $24 last time.....IE $3 a piece.

  11. #71
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    great idea. but the intakes rarely suffer from the drop that the exhaust does. :-) and support our vendors.
    buy from Turbos unleashed or FWD performance.

  12. #72
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    yeah but , buying them from the machinist should mean you get the size you need

    I bought the guides with the clips , in both std size and oversize .. just in case as my head hasn't been to the shop for machining yet

  13. #73
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    I bought a reman g-head from the bay and after a while started burning some oil. Half the damn guides dropped down a decent bit. Annoying.

  14. #74
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    I would be very curious to see what a 2 valve per cylinder head looks like where the exhaust outflows the intake. Show me one and I'll show you a seriously hampered intake side of head (lol). Then to come up with a camshaft that would work good with that. I know of zero grinds for 8V 2.2's that would be a good fit. Most good flowing 4 valve per cylinder stock heads are no better than 85% E/I (by design). My last BV head avg. out to be exactly 80% exhaust to intake FLOW ratio. Ranging from 75.1 to 83.5 where cam sees most of its action. Cylinder head had great CFM #'s on both intake & exhaust.

    Going off memory as I don't feel like digging out the paperwork but I think my Masi exhaust out-flows the intake.

  15. #75
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    Going off memory as I don't feel like digging out the paperwork but I think my Masi exhaust out-flows the intake.
    It does and pretty much the Masi head was what I was referencing. Not super excited about a porting debate in this thread, just pics and discussion of whst I've done. Dropped the head and the TU Header off at the machine shop today.
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    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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  16. #76
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Looks good. Unshrouding the valves like that increases flow and diminishes the swirl effect, right?
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  17. #77
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    Head is back from the shop, the guys at Precision Cylinder Head in Lake Forest do mostly stock rebuild type stuff so I think the two brothers that run it get a little pumped when something out of the ordinary shows up. They had it a total of 5 days and I think I got 4 calls with set up questions. While hanging out and shooting the breeze I watched them setting up a Subaru head, I didn't know that they were shim over bucket (like the Masi's) and the last had to be set for each valve, time consuming for sure!. I got the idea for making a tool that will make their jobs a little easier. I'll be in it an hour and less than $10. And I'm sure they'll like it

    I spent about 9 hours this week disassembling and cutting the turbo housing and TU 3" SV assembly. Even with penetrant and heating with the torch I snapped one bolt off in the turbine housing and left the threads from a couple others in there so I had to source out some replacement hardware . In this guys opinion there is a lot of cutting and polishing to be performed INSIDE the turbo, I spent about 4.5 hours on the turbine housing and 2 hours inside the compressor housing. One area (where I've never seen anyone else mod so I'm claiming it as my idea ) is the Volute, that little divider wall between the incoming and outgoing charges. Due to the casting process of the housings and no actual matching processes on them, there is a lot of work/improvements to be done there, most of the porting/cutting is done with a parting wheel. It's the only thing that will fit in there where the shaping needs to be done. Compare the casting flash and unfinished shape of the before pics to the thinned and reshaped after pics. I also cut out any flashing that I could reach inside the housings using 3 different diameter cutting wheels. In the swingvalve assembly most of the time was spent increasing the throat size on the inlet and the waste gate bypass area. I like that Chris designed lots of meat there for extensive reshaping/enlarging. Check the pics, I think I should have use a flash on the before pics because you dontvreally see that bypass area or the throat termination into the scroll. Oh we, next time.
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    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
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  18. #78
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    It seems like no matter what, I snap at least one swingvalve bolt. Even if I had them out like a month prior lol.

  19. #79
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    That looks great AJ. The first person I heard of porting the turbo like that was 5digits, but I'm sure it goes back even before him. I bet that thing will flow much better with all the work you've put into it. Those little things really add up in my experience.

  20. #80
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: 4 hours of porting today, TU Header

    All good improvements. Did you port the wastegate hole? Wasn't a pic so wasn't sure if you did. Definitely helps with boost spiking and/or creep control in my experience, especially with the TU swingvalve with that huge puck you can really hog that baby out.

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