Strange No-Start and Stalling Issue - Need Help

[MopàrBCN]

Hello,

This is a strange issue. Please read it all, if you can. I need some ideas!

The car: 1989 Lebaron 2.5 Turbo 1 Coupe

The problem: Car started loosing power and eventually did not start up at all.

Codes: NONE (12 and 55)

Observations: 10 Volts instead of expected 12 Volts measured at Coil

Initially we did the obvious and checked for Sparc. Sparc on Cylinder 1,2,4 was weak and 3 did not have sparc at all. So we swapped over the Coil and cables from a running 1988 2.5 Lebaron without Turbo. As well as that we fitted new Plugs.
Result: The car started right away (as I thought it would because in my opinion the ignition cables were very bad) As well as that it responded well to throttle but at idle it stalled right away. Again there were NO CODES.

When trying to start it up again it would not start. Checked the plugs and the tips were solid black.

The strange thing is: There are NO CODES at all. After it stalled I would have expected a code 11 at least (indicating my HEP failed).

What we did as well is checking the voltage at the coil. We noted that we only measured 10v instead of what we expected to be 12v. COuld that be my problem?? And if so how can I trace it? Any help would be apreciated.

Other thing: The coil we used to test was from a 1988 LeBaron with external Capacitator. I noted that the coil used in the 1989 Lebaron does not have an external Capacitator. Could that be the problem????

[jre97]

Is your battery fully charged and was the charging system working when the car was running? Also if you have spark and fuel check to make sure the timing belt didn't jump.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, timing still needs to be checked, for the stalling part at idle. Thanks for that. Also, Battery is charged! The charging system was working, as far as I know. The car is not mine I am just helping on the issue. But I will ask to go for sure. A Bad charging system would possibly explain the 10 volts at the coil???

Now these are my current specific questions:

1. Are the 10Volts at the coil before and during cranking sufficient to produce the sparc needed?. Would these 10 Volts be normal or should I expect to see 12 Volts?

2. Could the stalling issue be related to using a 1988 Lebaron Non Turbo Coil which has an external capacitator on a 1989 2.5 Turbo 1 which does not feature the external capacitator?

General questions:

1. Could the HEP cause stalling without throughing a code??? (I for sure know it can cause stalling!)

2. Could the HEP in any way take influence on the quality of the sparc? In my opinion no, but I am not sure.

[cordes]

I believe that you can rule out the HEP being the problem if you disconect the negative battery terminal, to clear the memory in the computer and then reconnect it and try to crank over the motor.

If the HEP is bad, it will throw a code for never having seen the HEP.

Some one correct me if I am wrong here.

[MiniMopar]

Cordes is right and appears to be bored like me and is spending his time trolling the TM forums. You will get a code 11 after the reset and it will not go away if the HEP is not sending the ignition reference signal.

1A) 10V is a bit low, but you have to expect some sag when you are cranking the enigne over. 8V should be enough to fire the plug.

2A) The external filter is there to suppress the EMI that hits the 12V supply line when the coil is charged and discharged. Having one there is a good idea, but it won't prevent the car from running.

1B) Turbo HEPs have 2 sensors inside: the ignition reference sensor and the fuel injector sync sensor. If the ignition reference sensor fails, the ECU has no clue. It uses this sensor to determine if the engine is being cranked over. If it doesn't see the signal, it just sits there patiently waiting for it to come. If the fuel injector sync sensor fails but the ignition reference sensor is working, you will get a code 54.

2B) Not generally, as these sensors usually work or don't work (though it may be intermittent or effected by temperature).

Since you getting power to the coil, it means the ignition reference sensor is working. SInce you are not getting a code 54, it means the fuel injector sync sensor is working.

[turbovanman²]

Whats your fuel pressure?

Have you checked for spark while cranking it over?

Heres a good way to test the ignition system in minutes. Get an old spark plug, remove the ground electrode, hook it to the coil wire, ground the body and crank, it should jump and be a bluish spark. If no, the coil and or wire is bad. If yes, repeat test at a plug wire. Spark is good, no spark is bad cap or wire or both.

I have had bad HEP's set no codes and stall out my van. Try a known good one. If you need to buy one, DO NOT use a aftermarket, there junk. Spend a few bucks and buy a Mopar unit.

[MopàrBCN]

@CORDES, @MINIMOPAR and @TURBOVANMAN, thanks for the info. We have solved the problem and it nearly is emberassing. Yes I did check as well the rotor of cause, and it appeared rather new. After we checked all the rest and had no more ideas left we decided to invest the 3 euros in a new rotor just in case, and ever since its running just fine!!!

I had quite some discussion over the issue. The HEP was braught into play which I could not really imagine without code giving that we were having fuel and (although very weak) sparc.

Just to get an understanding, why I decided to post on this issue: In Spain it is virtually impossible to get the basics like Cables, Rotors etc for those cars in Stores. Even the plugs we do order in the States. Yes, you can get the parts from DC but they do as well order the parts in the states and don't even ask for what they do charge..... So considering that a basic parcel easyly costs 50$ only in shipping you think twice before ordering.

Thanks for your help.

[turbovanman²]

Glad you found it. I had the same issue a few years ago and it was my rotor, same as you. Forgot about that but my test I told you about found it.

[MopàrBCN]

Glad you found it. I had the same issue a few years ago and it was my rotor, same as you. Forgot about that but my test I told you about found it.

...there are times where I wish I would be a passionate bycikle fanatic instead of turbo-mopar enthusiast....