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Thread: Rich idle.

  1. #1
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    Rich idle.

    Hello friends. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out why my idle is so rich. Vehicle is 87 SL with +40's, tu fuel rail, AFPR, 3 bar, fmic, tu cast manifold, 50 trim. Everything else is stock, head cam etc. Fuel pressure is set to about 55 with the vac line unhooked. I have been messing with the tune but I'm kinda thinking it's not a tune issue. Any other ideas why it could be so rich? Right now I have a boost button stage 3 cal that has been scaled to +40's that I lowered the fuelbasedonmap table even further at 15-20inhg but it idles around 10:1-11:1. I'll get some pictures of what the fuel tables look like.

  2. #2
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    Re: Rich idle.

    coolant temp sensor ?

  3. #3
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Does the car run ok otherwise? No codes? Is the MAP a quality 3 bar, maybe use MPscan to verify output voltage matches vacuum and boost?

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Rich idle.

    I had a vacuum leak near the Map that caused my to be rich at idle
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, SLH with rear disks
    '87 CSX #432 2.5 CB TII, SLH

  5. #5
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    Re: Rich idle.

    IIRC the last time I had mpscan hooked up, my map sensor showed -6 to -7psi. Typically the car idles anywhere from 15-19inhg. Have to get my mpscan laptop from work and hook it up.

  6. #6
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Id imagine the cal is scaled for a 3 bar map? Check map output with a multimeter?

    Edit: the cal comes as a 3 bar by default, oops
    Last edited by CatchaCuda; 12-23-2017 at 03:39 PM.

  7. #7
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Rich idle.

    take fuel out at idle rpm with the pumping efficiency table. dont take it out of FuelBaselineFromMap or FuelNoThrottle or FuelPartThrottle till PumpingEfficiency is dialed in.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  8. #8
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    take fuel out at idle rpm with the pumping efficiency table. dont take it out of FuelBaselineFromMap or FuelNoThrottle or FuelPartThrottle till PumpingEfficiency is dialed in.

    Brian
    I tried that yesterday. At 1k rpm it seems like most cals have the PE at 90%. I turned it down to 85% and it made little to no difference. Said screw it and ii turned it down to 50% at 1krpm and it will actually idle around 14.7 and seems ok. The issue with that is when you go to take off it will go super lean until it gets above 1krpm. Gonna keep playing with it but swapping chips is getting old fast lol.

  9. #9
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    I tried that yesterday. At 1k rpm it seems like most cals have the PE at 90%. I turned it down to 85% and it made little to no difference. Said screw it and ii turned it down to 50% at 1krpm and it will actually idle around 14.7 and seems ok. The issue with that is when you go to take off it will go super lean until it gets above 1krpm. Gonna keep playing with it but swapping chips is getting old fast lol.
    is your fuel pressure regulator working correctly?

    you shouldnt have to lower it that much.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #10
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    Re: Rich idle.

    At idle with the vac line unplugged it was at 55psi. I'll check it again with the vac line hooked up but I remember checking it a long time ago and it worked fine. Wanna say it had like 40-45psi at idle or something along those lines.

  11. #11
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Doesn't sound like the calibration was scaled for 55 lbs injectors.

    Post your calibration.


    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Gonna keep playing with it but swapping chips is getting old fast lol.
    I know the feeling, then I bought http://support.moates.net/ostrich-20-overview/

  12. #12
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    Re: Rich idle.

    I was going back and forth on the ostrich. It's currently scaled for 55's. I played with the pumping efficiency and burned a new one so will see what it does. It seems decent everywhere else for the most part. If I'm cruising it will mostly stay around 14.7 unless I'm at very light throttle then it will be a little richer 13.5-14. WOT was a little rich but not too bad at 11-11.2.

  13. #13
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    I was going back and forth on the ostrich.
    Why? Cost? After tuning your car, sell it for $150. It'll be the best $25+ shipping you'll ever spend on tuning.

  14. #14
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    I was going back and forth on the ostrich. It's currently scaled for 55's. I played with the pumping efficiency and burned a new one so will see what it does. It seems decent everywhere else for the most part. If I'm cruising it will mostly stay around 14.7 unless I'm at very light throttle then it will be a little richer 13.5-14. WOT was a little rich but not too bad at 11-11.2.
    I scaled mine for 58's, worked good.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  15. #15
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Finally getting around to hooking mpscan back up. What parameters do y'all think I should log to figure this out? Map for sure.

  16. #16
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Finally getting around to hooking mpscan back up. What parameters do y'all think I should log to figure this out? Map for sure.
    I'm certainly not the tuning expert, but I would log: MAP, TPS, COOL, INJPW, RPM, O2, AISPOS, BATV. That should give you all the inputs and outputs that affect idle mixture.

    Your combo is similar to mine. I can tell you when my idle is about 14.7 on the WB, my injector pulse width is about 1.6ms. Hopefully that helps you out.

  17. #17
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Ugh. My ftdi chip refuses to work with my windows 10 laptop and I can't find the charger to my windows xp laptop. Ordered an ftdi cable from mouser so hopefully that works.

  18. #18
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Rich idle.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Ugh. My ftdi chip refuses to work with my windows 10 laptop and I can't find the charger to my windows xp laptop. Ordered an ftdi cable from mouser so hopefully that works.
    i remember there was a specific issue that had to be dealt with to properly install the driver. lemme do some digging.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  19. #19
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    Re: Rich idle.

    http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Docu...ndows%2010.pdf

    there was some "run as administrator" stuff you have to do. did you do that?

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  20. #20
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    Re: Rich idle.

    I think I tried that already. It was a cheapie $4 chip from eBay. The new one I ordered is made by ftdi themselves so hopefully it works fine.

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