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Thread: Calling all electronic geeks

  1. #21
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Hello Brian and thanks for joining the group.
    I was going to wait another week to see who joined and then ask what do we want/need for our cars!

    I am interested what was done on the knock box. I recently purchased a VW wideband knock sensor to play with.
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    Project '87 CSX #432
    Donor car '88 Daytona Shelby Z, TII with S60 Turbo/smec, 3 bar.

  2. #22
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    In the future I'm looking into adding a knock sensor to the Jeep Cal, by using an extra input to sense knock..

  3. #23
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Hello Brian and thanks for joining the group.
    I was going to wait another week to see who joined and then ask what do we want/need for our cars!
    adaptive boost control box with PID i had a system designed and was trying to muddle through code with an arduino and gave up cause:

    1. i got greedy with features.

    2. coding isnt something that im naturally good at.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I am interested what was done on the knock box. I recently purchased a VW wideband knock sensor to play with.
    this is info from PM's between wowzer and myself. i thought that the guys doing the MPSCILink wouldnt have too hard of a time porting this over to a faster MCU (we both bought 72mhz leaf labs maple boards before our schedules exploded) so i asked wowzer about it.... and then this thread popped up.... ripe for me to spam with ideas lol.

    https://github.com/keith-daigle/avr-tpic8101-420a

    its something that keith daigle and i were working on years ago but got too busy with life to finish. it has support for stock TD distributor and 95-02 neon/420 crank signal support with knock windowing etc. i did some testing on the neon that i used to have.

    the atmega 328 in the arduino we were using was getting thrashed doing high rpm calculations i believe.

    i helped keith develop the interface and make it pretty simple to use with hyperterminal as the interface and logging system. i have a TPIC interface board that i could send to whoever could do some testing. i could do some as soon as get my car tuned a little in the spring.

    my vision was to create something that would interface with a megasquirt and provide proper knock detection or even tie back into the stock 4 banger ecu if desired if the output signal is fast enough to send a knock event to the knock circuit while the ECU is still listening for knock from that cyl.

    alot of the code was the interface. reading some of the questions that it asks will shed light on some of the function if i dont do justice to the operation cause its been a few years since i did testing.
    1. use the bosch wide range knock sensor.
    2. interface with stock distributor signals for the 2.2/2.5 (worked with the smecstim)
    3. interface with 2.0L neon crank and cam signals (worked on my old neon.... that i dont have any more but i have access to a 420a eclipse car)
    4. interface with 2.4 NGC crank and cam signals (never implemented)
    5. interface with 3.0l dizzy signals (never implemented)
    6. knock windowing. through the hyperterminal interface you could define the angular window of knock listening. (implemented)
    7. rpm vs knock voltage values per cyl (implemented)
    8. overall gain control via hyperterminal menu (implemented)
    9. kickass logging.
    a. even though the mcu was snagging every ignition event (in theory) the rate of datalog was editable.
    b. the hyperterminal window logged all kinds of stuff. timestamp, knock yes or no, knock voltage, which cyl just produced that voltage, rpm, etc...
    c. place commas between each logged value for instant .csv files for easy excel manipulation.

    so the desire was to create something that could be relied on to provide good knock data, be fed back into a standalone ecu like a megasquirt to give that the functionality closer to a stock system.... partially cause i a have a buddy with a 420a eclipse turbo running megasquirt with no knock detection. but also, with a fast enough mcu, to feed knock events into the stock computer to trigger the knock system in that so you still have cyl by cyl knock trims like stock. the hope was also to give 3.0L guys a decent knock system.

    take a look and see what you think.

    thanks

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  4. #24
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Oh that's way more advanced than I was shooting for on the Jeep... I was mainly going to do something in the ECU similar to early models where it was an across the board retard until throttle let up.. mainly just for tuning purposes or saving the engine on low octane. But that's an awesome implementation for standalone controllers. I think I may have my hands full converting the jeep cal from na to fa for awhile.

  5. #25
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    yeah it was pretty advanced.

    i liked that the terminal menu interface was simple.

    youd open up a terminal window and it would be streaming data continuously. then press a button (forget what it is at this point) and it would stop logging and start asking you questions. if you didnt want to change that parameter associated with the question, youd press enter and it would move to the next question. that part worked really well. we just never got the functionality worked out before super life busyness. i approached keith a while ago to see if things calmed down and he said no.... it got worse lol. so he said hed put it up on github for the rest of us to try to finish porting it over to a faster MCU and finish testing.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    I've got an esp32 board coming in a few weeks. Should be able to handle the processing load. I printed off the code but that is as far as I got!!
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

  7. #27
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Hello All,
    I see we are starting to get our creative juices flowing....Fantastic!!!
    Brian comment "ripe for me to spam with ideas lol." got me thinking

    My question is we all have a number of potential projects which is great.

    Does anyone have experience with project management? I just wonder the best way to capture/organize our ideas/data.
    Would an admin create a subforum for us?
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    Project '87 CSX #432
    Donor car '88 Daytona Shelby Z, TII with S60 Turbo/smec, 3 bar.

  8. #28
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    If there were a common site to store project code on, a simple Todo list in a text file would work to set goals and as information in relating to it... I'm sure there are more advanced source control options but certainly a Todo list works with a minimal learning curve. I have used source forge and it uses either svn or CVS to version and code lines where two people have modified the same version at the same time..

  9. #29
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    I have a project idea, but no idea how to implement.
    Could there be a way to use a 36-1 timing wheel to develop a better ignition system that could work with the factory ecu, (the flashable, reprogrammable ecu)?
    Make use of a coil pack ignition like the nsrt4 or something?

    No idea if even possible, but it seems like a great expense to do micro/megasquirt to try to get better ignition control.

    I agree we need to start making some type of list. I'd voluteer, but I'm finding I haven't been as organized as i hoped with our other project venture!
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
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  10. #30
    We Todd D dot D Turbo Mopar Staff sdac guy's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    I just wonder the best way to capture/organize our ideas/data.
    Would an admin create a subforum for us?
    We have a sub-forum which hasn't been used for over 4 years. It is called The Tech Advisor Lounge. I discussed this with Cordes shortly and the problem with it is that it is a permission group. It looks like the way it was set up only Frank or Ken can approve membership to it. I looked into permission groups under my profile and it is not listed there (as one I could control or join) even though I do have access to it.
    Well neither Frank or Ken are here any more so I don't know what can be done.

    However, if a new sub-forum would be added, it too would need to be set up as a permission group so only those approved can access it as you don't need everybody on the board stumbling on it and adding their $.02 as the threads would quickly become diluted and have no continuity of thought. I'll talk to JT about it and see what can be done.


    Barry
    86 Shelby Lancer Prototype
    90 Daytona Shelby VNT
    91 Spirit R/T



    For your questions about SDAC, please contact BadAssPerformance


  11. #31
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Frank needs to hurry the hell up and hand this place off to JT and the guys already. It's been supposedly happening for a year now.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  12. #32
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    I've got an esp32 board coming in a few weeks. Should be able to handle the processing load. I printed off the code but that is as far as I got!!
    thats part of the reason i tossed it in here. get all eyes on it to spread the load.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Hello All,
    I see we are starting to get our creative juices flowing....Fantastic!!!
    Brian comment "ripe for me to spam with ideas lol." got me thinking

    My question is we all have a number of potential projects which is great.

    Does anyone have experience with project management? I just wonder the best way to capture/organize our ideas/data.
    Would an admin create a subforum for us?
    talking to frank to see what access the various admins have to create an area for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    I have a project idea, but no idea how to implement.
    Could there be a way to use a 36-1 timing wheel to develop a better ignition system that could work with the factory ecu, (the flashable, reprogrammable ecu)?
    Make use of a coil pack ignition like the nsrt4 or something?

    No idea if even possible, but it seems like a great expense to do micro/megasquirt to try to get better ignition control.

    I agree we need to start making some type of list. I'd voluteer, but I'm finding I haven't been as organized as i hoped with our other project venture!
    hack the spirit R/T crank/cam sensor code for the SMEC for crank and cam angle input? machine up some trigger wheels with the R/T pattern and bolt them to the crank and cam and use a neon coil pack?

    then blend that into the regular smec code. pester 5digits some more. lol. he could probably take Tsmec and do this in a weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by sdac guy View Post
    We have a sub-forum which hasn't been used for over 4 years. It is called The Tech Advisor Lounge. I discussed this with Cordes shortly and the problem with it is that it is a permission group. It looks like the way it was set up only Frank or Ken can approve membership to it. I looked into permission groups under my profile and it is not listed there (as one I could control or join) even though I do have access to it.
    Well neither Frank or Ken are here any more so I don't know what can be done.

    However, if a new sub-forum would be added, it too would need to be set up as a permission group so only those approved can access it as you don't need everybody on the board stumbling on it and adding their $.02 as the threads would quickly become diluted and have no continuity of thought. I'll talk to JT about it and see what can be done.


    Barry
    pestering frank to see if JT can do this.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  13. #33
    ...if you know what I mean... Turbo Mopar Contributor csxtra's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    I guess it is time for me to poke my head in here...been a busy fall with a job change and other life festivities...like we all have been dealing with (especially PaPa Bucar).

    I can help out some, I have a few ideas to throw around, and my skills are mainly on the software side: Assembler, C#. I have put together a few different iterations of datalogging these cars over the years, starting with PC logging from an OTC scanner, Palm Pilot logging, Direct PC logging, and my latest is a Netduino - like an Arduino that runs Microsoft .Net Micro Framework - that logs from a Logic Module and Innovate Log chain and broadcasts a serial stream over bluetooth to custom PC and Android clients, and also drives two MAC valves to switch boost level based on MPH and knock using old-school G-Valves.

    It works pretty well, but the clients are coded pretty specifically for my car's configuration and I haven't put any effort into making it configurable, which is another level of complexity altogether that I haven't had time for lately.

    I have dug into the LM code and done some small tweaks, but having an LM car has kept me focused on those dinosaurs instead of moving on to SMEC/SBEC.

    I second Wayne's idea for the 8 valve cars of a different way of getting the HEP signal instead of the inaccurate and failure-prone plastic wheel and HEP, but that is probably not an easy task?

    And I would REALLY like to do a PID boost controller that handles multiple target boost levels, so we don't need the G Valves anymore.

    Warren
    Warren Hall
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    OVC - SDAC "Our Sh*t Rolls!"
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  14. #34
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Welcome to the party Warren!
    Good to have you interested, meow.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.7786@113.04 mph! - Jan 15th, 2017 Fayetteville Dragway, NC)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
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  15. #35
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    I was also thinking of the HEP and boost control!
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    Project '87 CSX #432
    Donor car '88 Daytona Shelby Z, TII with S60 Turbo/smec, 3 bar.

  16. #36
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Would it be possible to machine a shaft and shutter wheel together in one piece? That would at least eliminate that failure point.

    BTW, I'm in to at least help with brainstorming I'm totally a noob when it comes to programming, and just learning smd soldering. I am pretty good at tuning and using what you guys develop though Hopefully I can continue learning and do more though, especially since I bought out Boost Button and am trying to keep the custom tuning going for these cars. I'd really like to get my head around disassembling the codes to start with.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC
    2.5 TIII swap is here!

    Project LookOwt
    '91 Daytona ES, 61k original miles, Rick Lozier's old 3.0 nitrous car
    Back to basics, then the mods go back on....

  17. #37
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    RE: better timing input...

    The '95 Neon code is very similar to the '92 T1. It would easiest to setup a SMEC or SBEC to use the Neon cam/crank signal; or obviously the T3. Making the SMEC or SBEC read a different kind of trigger will be a monumental task.

    In my opinion, the '92 turbo code is the most advanced code available for these cars. Even better than the T3.

    One of my lost projects was to 'port' the '92 turbo code over to the Neon FCC. Then you could use the Neon FCC as kind of a stand-alone. It even still uses the 'old' 60-way connector. Though, the pinout is different from the SBEC/SBECII.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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  18. #38
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor minigts's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    LM4L1fe

    btw, I'm in to help where I can.


    Jon Trotter

    1985 Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned
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  19. #39
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    I was dealing with the fires in Southern Cali, as well as a unexpected hospital stay, so I just saw this.


    I am definitely interested in helping out in any way I can! Most probably I could contribute any sort of testing/experimentation that needs to be done. I think what drives me the most is just the learning process. I dont own a turbo-mopar but I come from the Jeep side, which makes it even more niche around here than we already are

    I have a background in IT as a systems engineer, I can script and read code but not a code monkey by any means. I can also solder but I'm a n00b with circuits but the desire to learn is there. I've learned a TON about sbec's in the year scouring old messages from many very knowledgeable people.

    The main thing I feel bad about also is annoying the knowledgeable people with my n00b questions as well.

    Alot of the basic info on here is scattered in many different places, either on different threads, over the course of 10 years amongst many people, or posted on Boostbutton, or even other forums...I think it would be really good to build a wiki of all the common knowledge we need and maintain. I'm happy to contribute to that as well but I'm still learning as I go.

    The main thing that I dont want to do is bother the experts with n00bish questions. I often feel bad asking as well but I gain a ton of insight when I do ask/figure out something. So I apologize in advance if my dumb quetions have gotten on anyones nerves. It comes from a good place, just alot of curiosity.

    In short, I'm happy to contribute where i can. Whether it's testing, being a guinea pig, gathering and sending people testing equipment (scouring junkyards for test ECUs hardware), contributing financially, whatever it is. I am down to help.

  20. #40
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    RE: better timing input...

    The '95 Neon code is very similar to the '92 T1. It would easiest to setup a SMEC or SBEC to use the Neon cam/crank signal; or obviously the T3. Making the SMEC or SBEC read a different kind of trigger will be a monumental task.

    In my opinion, the '92 turbo code is the most advanced code available for these cars. Even better than the T3.

    One of my lost projects was to 'port' the '92 turbo code over to the Neon FCC. Then you could use the Neon FCC as kind of a stand-alone. It even still uses the 'old' 60-way connector. Though, the pinout is different from the SBEC/SBECII.
    Rob,
    Could we not have a crank based sensor with a board that translates it to HEP-like signal that the current ECU can understand?
    Last edited by chromguy; 12-14-2017 at 09:13 AM.
    Regards,
    Miles

    DD '87 Sundance T1, 12PSI, SLH with rear disks
    Project '87 CSX #432
    Donor car '88 Daytona Shelby Z, TII with S60 Turbo/smec, 3 bar.

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