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Thread: Calling all electronic geeks

  1. #41
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    It should be possible to make a trigger wheel to create a HEP signal.. I say that but i haven't seen a HEP encoder wheel. Still would need a sensor/encoder on the cam though for injection if it's sequential.. if it's not sequential, everything could be done from the crank.

  2. #42
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by chromguy View Post
    Rob,
    Could we not have a crank based sensor with a board that translates it to HEP-like signal that the current ECU can understand?
    I guess you could. What would be the advantage in that case?

    I just thought that since the Neon FCC and SMEC/SBEC/SBECII use the same processor, porting over that input code should be pretty straight forward.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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  3. #43
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by A_ Kelley View Post
    It should be possible to make a trigger wheel to create a HEP signal.. I say that but i haven't seen a HEP encoder wheel. Still would need a sensor/encoder on the cam though for injection if it's sequential.. if it's not sequential, everything could be done from the crank.
    Non-sequential (a la TBI) I assume would be a piece of cake. You'd just need two shutters instead of four, right?

    With sequential, you'd have to come up with some way to address the one shutter on the HEP wheel with the window. Some sort of divide by 2 via circuitry.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I guess you could. What would be the advantage in that case?
    More room in the glove compartment .
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
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  4. #44
    turbo addict
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    So are the Neon FCC ECUs the 95 obd1 computers or just the first gen cars?

  5. #45
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I guess you could. What would be the advantage in that case?

    I just thought that since the Neon FCC and SMEC/SBEC/SBECII use the same processor, porting over that input code should be pretty straight forward.
    advantage would be getting rid of the distributor timing input signal (hep setup) with its play and jigglyness. the high voltage part of the distributor isnt that bad if the input signals are more accurate.

    of course, since this an electronic geek thread, one could make a transistor switching circuit that is switched from one circuit to each other depending on what cyl pair should fire, and drive a neon coil pack from the single coil ground circuit from the ecu.....

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  6. #46
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    I'm willing to help where and when I can. I just purchased my first turbo Mopar and just scratching the surface of my SMEC and installing a DIY boostbutton flashable. Most of my experience has been with Megasquirt and SDS, but the concepts are the same. I look forward to being part of the group!

  7. #47
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    It should be easy to make a encoder for the crank, and then make a encoder for the cam.. you'd need to keep the cam sensor to determine which injectors to fire (sequential).. if you don't, it'd still run but the injectors might be out of phase with cylinders intake stroke. So really just moving the trigger for the crank would resolve timing jumping, even if you left the stock hep wheel, it wouldn't matter if it took a dump, your spark timing still wouldn't change (because as I understand it, one part controls spark timing and one fuel injection cylinder choice.)

  8. #48
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    question , could one run two cam position sensors ? (180 apart on the crank wheel)

    say a crank wheel was made with the teeth for the crank sensor around the edge but in a smaller diameter inside the diameter of the wheel instead of another ring of "tabs" or teeth , a circle of holes
    could you then mount two cam sensors 180* apart and reference them to the crank wheel?

    - I'd figure so but I'm unsure about if two cam sensors is doable by simply splicing them together so one or the other sends a signal at the right time

    as for deleting the distributor .. I think this has A LOT to do with the R/T 16v oil pump drive failures
    with the dist and it's clamp in place the oil pump gear is pretty much locked into position
    without the distributor drive engaged with the slot in the pump , and without the shaft of the dist and the clamp , the shaft in the oil pump can now climb and fall off of the gear driving it off the intermediate shaft (pump shaft endplay)
    without the dist in place this would continue until the upwards and downwards movement of the oil pump gear finally "files" off enough of the teeth it strips , or slips

    chopping the base and bottom end of the dist shaft off and reinstalling them with the dist hold down clamp would seem to make a lot of sence
    I'm really surprised there's nothing there to maintain the gear engagement on the R/T motors

    reply to below:
    yeah I realized that just after posting ..been thinking about the back end of the cam to long
    Idea no longer works when I move positions
    Last edited by Dr. Johny Dodge; 12-17-2017 at 09:44 PM.

  9. #49
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    no you can't base the cam signal off of the crankshaft because it rotates at half the speed of the crank and cannot differentiate between TDC on 1/3 vs 4/2. the portion of the cam sensor that indicates degrees TDC can be based on the crank, because it does not matter if its TDC on 1/3 or 4/2. make sense?

  10. #50
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    What about getting rid of the cam plug and modifying the back of the head and cam to accept a Neon cam sensor and magnet, and make a crank trigger wheel that mimics the Neon crank tone wheel? Then the Neon code could be ported to the SMEC/SBEC and we could run factory sensors that are easily available, and have accurate spark and injector control, and be able to go to a coil pack also. And the Megasquirt coding is done for those sensors also, so would make going to that easier as well.
    Rob M.
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  11. #51
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    What about getting rid of the cam plug and modifying the back of the head and cam to accept a Neon cam sensor and magnet, and make a crank trigger wheel that mimics the Neon crank tone wheel? Then the Neon code could be ported to the SMEC/SBEC and we could run factory sensors that are easily available, and have accurate spark and injector control, and be able to go to a coil pack also. And the Megasquirt coding is done for those sensors also, so would make going to that easier as well.
    this shouldnt be too hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  12. #52
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    it did have a drive pulley there for the air pump on the carb cars so you might even be able to use the pulley cover too

  13. #53
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    What about getting rid of the cam plug and modifying the back of the head and cam to accept a Neon cam sensor and magnet, and make a crank trigger wheel that mimics the Neon crank tone wheel?
    Dammit, these kinds of questions make me wish I still had some 8-valve stuff kicking around. That's a pretty good idea. You probably wouldn't even have to mess with sealing since the seal is integral to the sensor. Just a nice flat surface and a couple of M6 holes would do it.
    Jon J.

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  14. #54
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    good read re neon cam sensors - and magnets

    https://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=408093

  15. #55
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by moparman76_69 View Post
    So are the Neon FCC ECUs the 95 obd1 computers or just the first gen cars?
    Technically, they partially support OBD2. Eventhough they weren't required to. The OBD crap is half the ROM data file. It also has an odd additional rev-limiter appearing routine. It may actually be defeat code, I'm not sure really what it does. It's dis-abled in the Mopar cals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    What about getting rid of the cam plug and modifying the back of the head and cam to accept a Neon cam sensor and magnet, and make a crank trigger wheel that mimics the Neon crank tone wheel? Then the Neon code could be ported to the SMEC/SBEC and we could run factory sensors that are easily available, and have accurate spark and injector control, and be able to go to a coil pack also. And the Megasquirt coding is done for those sensors also, so would make going to that easier as well.
    Yep, this...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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  16. #56
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Technically, they partially support OBD2. Eventhough they weren't required to. The OBD crap is half the ROM data file. It also has an odd additional rev-limiter appearing routine. It may actually be defeat code, I'm not sure really what it does. It's dis-abled in the Mopar cals.
    But the only cars they are available in are 95s?

  17. #57
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by sdac guy View Post
    We have a sub-forum which hasn't been used for over 4 years. It is called The Tech Advisor Lounge. I discussed this with Cordes shortly and the problem with it is that it is a permission group. It looks like the way it was set up only Frank or Ken can approve membership to it. I looked into permission groups under my profile and it is not listed there (as one I could control or join) even though I do have access to it.
    Well neither Frank or Ken are here any more so I don't know what can be done.

    However, if a new sub-forum would be added, it too would need to be set up as a permission group so only those approved can access it as you don't need everybody on the board stumbling on it and adding their $.02 as the threads would quickly become diluted and have no continuity of thought. I'll talk to JT about it and see what can be done.

    Barry
    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    Frank needs to hurry the hell up and hand this place off to JT and the guys already. It's been supposedly happening for a year now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    thats part of the reason i tossed it in here. get all eyes on it to spread the load.

    talking to frank to see what access the various admins have to create an area for this.

    pestering frank to see if JT can do this.

    Brian
    Update to Forum handoff... Still in process... Frank added me as Admin a while ago and I'm just now getting a little time to poke around how to do stuff. TurboDave is now an Admin too. Next steps will be to update the forum software to something current then complete the handoff.

    If we want to add some forums I think i can figure that out, or Dave knows, he developed/managed another VB forum before. I know enough to be dangerous, heck, after pestering Frank for the first couple years of TM to fix it, I just messed around for 10 minutes and figured out how to change the font color on pulldown menus in "TM Dark" so you can actually see the options without having to hover over them

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  18. #58
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Quote Originally Posted by moparman76_69 View Post
    But the only cars they are available in are 95s?
    Yes. They called them all '95's. But, really production started in like June of '94. It was a long year.

    The same ECU was used in the '95 420a DSM cars...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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  19. #59
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all electronic geeks

    Added a new sub forum for those who wish to volunteer and donate their time and efforts for the benefit of our community!

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/fo...el-Guru-Temple

    JT
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