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Thread: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

  1. #21
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Quote Originally Posted by TFmech View Post
    Alright here is the update tried scaling the program for smaller injectors and it ran ok but was still a little off. So I tried Aries way adjusted everything to base put the injectors back at 83 input the right latency table for them. Then fired it up with the adaptives off and it was dead lean started raising the Pumping efficiency table so till it would stay running but it was still lean about 17:1 with the table at 100percent. I then went back and put the table back to the stock position. Then went to the main three fuel tables and started scaling them up about 5 percent at a time till it got enough fuel at a idle which ended up being about 30 percent.

    Which made the pumping efficiency table so it actually does something and dosent have to be at 100 percent or close to it. It drives almost dead smooth the few miles I have driven it now it seems to be right on with the air fuel table goes to 11.5 in boost and cruises around right in the mid 14s.

    I am going to go make some data log drives and see make sure it dosent have any lean or rich spots but it is finally close enough that I can.

    I guess the Question is still why does it have to have the fuel tables up 30percent to get it to act right? Do I just need to go with it and adjust from there or keep looking for the why?
    thats weird. is your car running a LM/PM?

    mine is a little lean and needs tuning but nothing that bad.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  2. #22
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Quote Originally Posted by TFmech View Post
    Trick flows are Lucas injectors. The 83s I have were just sold under Lucas instead of trickflow. I might step up to 95s but you said you didn't get a latency table with yours, right?
    I didnít with my purchase at the time, but got the information some time ago from another member who did. I could try to find it if you end up needing it.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    thx. might be a few days before i can look at it btw.
    Its all good.

  4. #24
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    thats weird. is your car running a LM/PM?

    mine is a little lean and needs tuning but nothing that bad.

    Brian
    Yes it is a PM/LM setup. I don't really get it either, I have tuned a couple other LM cars that were closer to stock but they were pretty close to the tables. It is like it is not scaling the tables right but I don't know why and I don't really have much to compare it too either though.

  5. #25
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    I was about to suggest trying the way you just did. But I'd say something is off. We'll see what wowzer finds. I haven't run into your particular problem before (not to that extent) so could be something with the new MP Tune update.
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  6. #26
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Latest update, it runs great why the tables are off I hope we figure it out but it is pretty close.

    The two things it still has going are when it is cold it is way to rich like in the 9.2-10.0 range till it warms up. What tables do I need to adjust the fuel when it is cold? Second when it is warm and shut it off for about 10-15 min fires up lean till it is back down to operating temp?

  7. #27
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    After slapping some highz 36pph injectors in my wife's 2.5 T1 and it being insanely Rich even at 19 PSI base fuel pressure I'm excited to see people talking about injector latency. That is something that I have not thought of when thinking of turbo Dodge guys. I always wondered how people dealt with having non stock injectors while using original engine manufacturer data. Probably why people's cars ran so bad for so long in certain situations or people were constantly messing around with fuel pressure. Wrong dead times can mean your injectors might be close at 1 RPM and off at another Etc. Even my FIC has a crude adjustment. Not incredibly important to have the latency perfect at voltages you rarely see. It you could lose a motor if the alternator stopped charging...
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  8. #28
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Quote Originally Posted by TFmech View Post
    Latest update, it runs great why the tables are off I hope we figure it out but it is pretty close.

    The two things it still has going are when it is cold it is way to rich like in the 9.2-10.0 range till it warms up. What tables do I need to adjust the fuel when it is cold? Second when it is warm and shut it off for about 10-15 min fires up lean till it is back down to operating temp?
    the times below will differ based on which factory calibration you start with.

    curve A and C are your short term fuel enrichments. from when the car is started for a certain period of time.

    curve C is the shortest around 7 seconds active and then tapers off for around 7 seconds.

    curve A is a little longer.

    Cold: around 90 sec active and tapers off for around 22 sec.

    Hot: around 15 seconds active and then tapers off for around 10 sec.

    Curve B - active all the time.


    it depends on what happens immediately after starting. if its really rich or lean but cleans up after a bit then the short term enrichments may need an adjustment..

    if its rich or lean the whole way till it warms up (or cools down) then its probably curve b that needs an adjustment.


    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  9. #29
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    After slapping some highz 36pph injectors in my wife's 2.5 T1 and it being insanely Rich even at 19 PSI base fuel pressure I'm excited to see people talking about injector latency. That is something that I have not thought of when thinking of turbo Dodge guys. I always wondered how people dealt with having non stock injectors while using original engine manufacturer data. Probably why people's cars ran so bad for so long in certain situations or people were constantly messing around with fuel pressure. Wrong dead times can mean your injectors might be close at 1 RPM and off at another Etc. Even my FIC has a crude adjustment. Not incredibly important to have the latency perfect at voltages you rarely see. It you could lose a motor if the alternator stopped charging...
    for the longest time most folks ran either stock, +20 or +40 injectors. +40's had a table defined from the factory in the S60 cal. dunno how accurate it was but my stuff always ran better when using that table for +40 injectors.

    it seems to affect idle alot though as the pulsewidth on huge injectors is so small that the latency may be a significant percentage of the commanded pulsewidth.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #30
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    I just wanted to follow up on this.

    I talked to quite a few of the random folks that I've run into over the years that had a lean problem with really large injectors. Most of them scaled up the 3 map fuel tables and then adjusted peftbl to dial the fuel curve in.

    Prior to my current setup and just about everything I made Cal's for were +20s and +40s which were pretty straightforward to dial in. 72lb on up? Not so much.

    I did some testing on my car with 75lb injectors. It's pretty happy right now with them scaled to 72lb.

    That means with large injectors and MPTune, we are going to have to scale them less than their actual size and that the afr calculated values are going to be incorrect.

    I'm going to do some more scaling tests over the weekend with an ostrich and o2 feedback disabled.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  11. #31
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Adjustting the Battery Offset table?

    Here's another thing to note: If you run Hi-Z injectors on a low-Z system (like ours), the injector latency that the manufacturer gives will be meaningless. Our system uses a 'peak-and-hold' injector driver which hits the injector with a high current, and the settles to a lower current - to reduce the latency. Newer Hi-Z systems don't do this, the injector itself is designed for a lower latency.

    So, if you use a newer Hi-Z injector with a peak-and-hold driver, the latency will be VERY low. In fact, I would simply set the latency table to maybe 1-bit above zero above 12v and call it good.
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