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Thread: Ultimate Shadow ES

  1. #41
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    "the something left out" that Jackson's extra idler pulley mod replaces ?

  2. #42
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    I can see now why that never made it to production .. to many parts, to much to modify

    I can only imagine the increased cost to a $150 timing belt replacement at the dealer with this rigging too

    thanks for the pics .. I've always wondered just what this would look like
    Agreed - VVT is less of a "contraption".
    BUT...
    I must add the timing belt is nearly a 1/4" wider than the standard T-III belt - The way they ALL should have been.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    "the something left out" that Jackson's extra idler pulley mod replaces ?
    Although increased belt wrap can be an improvement, there are many other things to consider which is an entirely different discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    The funny thing is Chrysler didn't utilize VVT untill I think the world engine?
    That came with a "world" of disappointment too.

  3. #43
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    The world engine might not be the most powerful or fuel efficient, but it's nearly bulletproof in my experience. Sorry for going off topic.

  4. #44
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    The world engine might not be the most powerful or fuel efficient, but it's nearly bulletproof in my experience. Sorry for going off topic.
    No problem.
    Although, the Caliber was to be rated at 300Hp - it didn't occur because they blamed it on the drive-line.. half shafts and so forth.
    Truth be told, I inspected more broken cranks, spun rod bearings and holes in engine blocks on that engine than I did by combining all the powertrains I've supported.
    In many engineering eyes, bullet proof shouldn't come with windows in blocks and bearings that are too small for the application.
    It was planned to be far better but cost reduced to something marginal.
    Last edited by 5DIGITS; 08-10-2017 at 07:49 PM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Keep the info coming, Ken. This thread is awesome!

  6. #46
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    No problem.
    Although, the Caliber was to be rated at 300Hp - it didn't occur because they blamed it on the drive-line.. half shafts and so forth.
    Truth be told, I inspected more broken cranks, spun rod bearings and holes in engine blocks on that engine than I did by combining all the powertrains I've supported.
    In my eyes, bullet proof shouldn't come with windows in blocks and bearings that are too small for the application.
    It was planned to be far better but cost reduced to something marginal.
    Oh I'm not sure about the turbo one, but in my 6 years as a Dodge tech I've never seen an internal failure that wasn't caused by water ingestion.

  7. #47
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Ken have you seen member RGL10 's VVT "contraption" on his 2.5 Omni??

    Its pretty cool, actually his entire Omni is full of cool stuff.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
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  8. #48
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    Ken have you seen member RGL10 's VVT "contraption" on his 2.5 Omni??

    Its pretty cool, actually his entire Omni is full of cool stuff.

    Thanks
    Randy
    Hi Randy
    No I haven't - is there a thread/link you can provide?
    Last edited by 5DIGITS; 08-11-2017 at 01:17 PM.

  9. #49
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    Hi Randy
    No I haven't - is there a thread/link you can provide?
    I got your back Randy!

    Here it is Ken:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=73671
    85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build
    Wayne H.

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    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
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  10. #50
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    I got your back Randy!

    Here it is Ken:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=73671
    85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build
    Thanks !

    I'll check it out.

  11. #51
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Appreciate the link Wayne!!

    Thanks
    Randy

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    I got your back Randy!

    Here it is Ken:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=73671
    85 GLH Turbo experimental testbed build


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

  12. #52
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    Thanks !

    I'll check it out.
    Very cool - It looks great and thought out for the 8v application !!

  13. #53
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    No problem.
    Although, the Caliber was to be rated at 300Hp - it didn't occur because they blamed it on the drive-line.. half shafts and so forth.
    Truth be told, I inspected more broken cranks, spun rod bearings and holes in engine blocks on that engine than I did by combining all the powertrains I've supported.
    In many engineering eyes, bullet proof shouldn't come with windows in blocks and bearings that are too small for the application.
    It was planned to be far better but cost reduced to something marginal.
    This is probably better for a different thread, but this is referring to the 4B11 engine? If so, what, if any internal differences are there to the Mitsubishi version in the EVO, because that engine has been making pretty big power on stock bottom ends.

  14. #54
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Hood vent on a P body? Hmmm, it's OK Mr Berubi, my memory isn't what it used to be either
    https://i.wheelsage.org/pictures/d/d...r_sedan_1.jpeg

    Looks exactly like mine did with sunroof, crabs and no ground effects or rear wing (except mine was white/blue instead of black/silver).

  15. #55
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by fixit View Post
    Subscribe
    How was so much power possible
    Srt4 ( 2.4L dohc) at 14psi makes 230, even with stage 3 hmo 356/360 @25 psi
    Getting caught up on posts... I need to clarify a few things here.

    The Ultimate Daytona made 300HP and 300Ft Lbs of torque with mild boost.
    Although, the boost schedule was written such that the engine would maintain a much flatter torque, along with the assistance of the cam phaser.
    The boost was set to 16psi at lower RPM and ramped to 19psi.
    This is done because as engine RPM increased, the combustion chamber trapping efficiency declines - there's less time to fill the cylinder.
    With this approach along with the use of the cam phasers, a constant level of combustion chamber pressure can be targeted and obtained.
    There's many dyno curves out there where poor boost control that over-shoot the calibrated target and then attempt to recover while hunting above and below target boost.
    This is nearly opposite of what could be done and although it produces a great over-target peak number, area under the curve is lost.
    It's also how a vehicle with lower stable boost control with a mild boost ramp towards higher RPM can beat vehicles with much higher boost - again, area under the curve.

    Now on to the measurable deficiencies with the Ultimate Daytona.
    The exhaust was a production exhaust with the huge limiting factor being the turbo elbow, which was a 2.5" pipe cut on a 45 degree angle to make a 90 degree bend.
    Additionally, the turbo was wrong for the application and simply used because it was larger.
    To make matters worse, the Ultimate Daytona used two T-III intercoolers in series which had the pressure drop across them summed rather than divided, by running them in parallel.

    With all this said, we can fast forward to whats being built today.
    The exhaust is vastly improved, the block is decked to gain whatever squish can be obtained from the narrow chamber squish bands.
    Finally the turbo, intercooler and intake designed for the application is superior to what was used in 1992.
    I always target equal or improved power levels at the lowest possible boost.
    This approach supports lower inlet charge temps, higher compressor efficiency with an intercooler that packages in the production position.

    When all the pieces get along and compliment each other - very "cool" things happen.

    I hope this helps.
    Last edited by 5DIGITS; 08-23-2017 at 05:57 PM.

  16. #56
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Yeah well in '92 I was also running two intercoolers in series on the red 87 GLHS, first into the Factory cooler then plumbed into a Mitsu Starion IC then to the TB. Temps were low but pressure loss musta been crazy high! Little did we know back then...

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