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Thread: Ultimate Shadow ES

  1. #21
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    SUB-EFFIN-SCRIBED! This is cool as hell.
    Jon J.

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  2. #22
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    The cam phasers may be a later addition but are not planned for now.
    Largely due to having to modify the body and radiator core support to accommodate the system.
    Two front engine mounts are required, the A/C bracket is rendered useless, the passenger side mount move's outward and clearance needs to be provided for the drive motor that moves the belt idler arms. The adjustment capability to the cam position was more than needed and monitored by a linear sensor mounted between the two pulled - screwed directly to the head.
    I'll collect the hardware and post a pic if anyone is interested - it's quite the mechanical contraption.
    Definitely interested. The cam phaser would make a great article for Up Front and TM Knowledge Center jt@sdac.org

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  3. #23
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Sounds like a Coooool project Ken.

    Looking forward to it!

    Robert Mclellan
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  4. #24
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    That was Shelby's hope for the 1990 production car but Chrysler wanted nothing to do with the Bonzai blue.
    Additionally, they entertained a wastegated VNT for the T-III as a 2.2 but Garrett costs were astronomical and their new production facility already had build variation issues that were not realized with the early hand-built VNT's. This is why the minimum attainable boost was all over the map in production and ultimately caused the VNT to be cancelled.
    Therefore, the 2.2 T-III with a wastegated VNT was quickly discarded as an option and Chrysler marketing took over to define a car against Shelby's interests.
    Thanks! I knew about the wastegated VNT option, which was a strange one.

  5. #25
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    The cam phasers may be a later addition but are not planned for now.
    Largely due to having to modify the body and radiator core support to accommodate the system.
    Two front engine mounts are required, the A/C bracket is rendered useless, the passenger side mount move's outward and clearance needs to be provided for the drive motor that moves the belt idler arms. The adjustment capability to the cam position was more than needed and monitored by a linear sensor mounted between the two pulled - screwed directly to the head.
    I'll collect the hardware and post a pic if anyone is interested - it's quite the mechanical contraption.
    How cool....!!!

  6. #26
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Definitely interested. The cam phaser would make a great article for Up Front and TM Knowledge Center jt@sdac.org
    Thanks JT.
    Short of providing a link to a YouTube (which I'd like to minimize), how can I post a video directly to the thread?
    There seems to be a file size or limit placed on doing so....
    I'd like to post a video on how the system actuates during cam advance and retard - at the development cost of $30k to generate this hardware, it's best explained with a visual.

  7. #27
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    ken you can make a private video on youtube that only those with the link can see. like folks on here.

    it will cut down on traffic.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  8. #28
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Thanks! I knew about the wastegated VNT option, which was a strange one.
    This is the only one I know to exist from the program and what makes it unique is the use of a ceramic turbine wheel.
    Also notice the cast T-III turbo flange - it's amazing what could have been.


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  9. #29
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    Talking Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Definitely interested. The cam phaser would make a great article for Up Front and TM Knowledge Center jt@sdac.org
    Lets get started

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  10. #30
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    What was horrific on the Ultimate Daytona was the turbo and exhaust.
    The turbo was the best offered for the engine size and application in 1991 - A Mitsubishi POS coupled with an elbow that was derived by cutting a 2.5" tube on a 45 degree angle and welded to make a 90 degree turn. The turbo alone was a huge limit to the package along with the expeditious plumbing needed to quickly make it functional.

    By today's standards and technology, it was a pathetic arrangement capable of far more - not by engineering limitation but solely by the hardware availability.
    In short, what made 300HP with an incredibly flat torque curve in 1991 is capable of far more today, without all the complex hardware.

    I've removed a measurable amount of metal from the exhaust manifold and the custom cast dual BB T3/T4 turbo (thanks to my friends at turbonetics) should yield a bountiful amount of boost at very low shaft speed for efficient low heat emitting boost, thus no need for a radiator sized intercooler. Low volume + good efficiency = beyond acceptable response and output.
    Again - "Stay Tuned"

  11. #31
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    I was at the 94 Newport Beach auction where Mr Shelby was for lack of a better word here was 'Distraught' with the low bids on the prototype cars and other unique items. He was trying to raise money for his Childrens heart fund and I think all the folks connected with Shelby expected higher bids and a better return. Anyway, my question for you is, was one of the Proto's that sold that day equipped with the Phaser? I know the Banzai blue car(which was originally a white car with the Banzai applied over it) wasn't. There were 4-5 TIII equipped cars from what I remember...


    EDIT: Speaking of friends from Turbonetics you may know, where did Chris W. ever end up?(no guys, not the TU guy we know...) He sure was helpful and awesome to talk to back in the day

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  12. #32
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    I was at the 94 Newport Beach auction where Mr Shelby was for lack of a better word here was 'Distraught' with the low bids on the prototype cars and other unique items. He was trying to raise money for his Childrens heart fund and I think all the folks connected with Shelby expected higher bids and a better return. Anyway, my question for you is, was one of the Proto's that sold that day equipped with the Phaser? I know the Banzai blue car(which was originally a white car with the Banzai applied over it) wasn't. There were 4-5 TIII equipped cars from what I remember...
    Hi Alan.
    The low bids were somewhat understandable, for the time.
    In many cases what Shelby referred as a prototype were actually development mules, by Chrysler's standards.
    Many of them were simply re-purposed cars populated with test hardware, some in a different color or they appeared as production Shelby cars with a unique dash badge.
    Therefore the cars were not that appealing by comparison when also considering the T-III was also readily available at dealerships.

    Regarding the cam phaser, none of the cars at Whittier had it.
    That was a one off piece built for an entirely different reason.
    The 2.4L was slated to replace the old 2.2/2.5L and by that time Francois Castaing was calling VVT "the future" and turbo's "yestertech".
    He was one of the largest contributors to the demise of the domestic turbo cars in the early to mid 90's, with the exception of export cars which retained a turbo market.
    In the case of the mexico market, the 2.4L JR Sebring turbo R/T was done completely outside of Chrysler at Roush - it was lethargic at best.
    (Side note - The JR turbo 2.4L engine was the starting point for the PT turbo and eventually the SRT Neon)
    With this said, the cam phaser was an early test to realize capability and the 2.5L configuration was used to closely mimic the upcoming 2.4L.
    Although it never made it to the car, an NA 2.5L Lotus configuration was also tested since the turbo applications were being killed off.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Speaking of friends from Turbonetics you may know, where did Chris W. ever end up?(no guys, not the TU guy we know...) He sure was helpful and awesome to talk to back in the day
    I didn't/don't know Chris.

  13. #33
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    Lets get started

    I'm trying to visualize this from all angles. The drive motor attachment with the little U-joint, is that coupled to a lead screw and that's what makes the adjustment on the fly?
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
    2003 Neon SXT - gone but never forgotten

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  14. #34
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnymopar View Post
    I'm trying to visualize this from all angles. The drive motor attachment with the little U-joint, is that coupled to a lead screw and that's what makes the adjustment on the fly?
    Yes
    I have posted some additional pics capturing various angles, seen below.





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  15. #35
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    The 2.4L was slated to replace the old 2.2/2.5L and by that time Francois Castaing was calling VVT "the future" and turbo's "yestertech".
    Hah. Now everyone and their mother is slapping turbos on everything with all different types of vvt. It's funny though that most normal people don't remember/know that Chrysler sold a helluva lot of turbo engines.

  16. #36
    Authorized Vendor Turbo Mopar Vendor BadFastGTC's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    "Improved fuel adaptation", are you going to run alcohol?
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  17. #37
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    I can see now why that never made it to production .. to many parts, to much to modify

    I can only imagine the increased cost to a $150 timing belt replacement at the dealer with this rigging too

    thanks for the pics .. I've always wondered just what this would look like

  18. #38
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor jonnymopar's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    Thanks for the additional pictures!

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Hah. Now everyone and their mother is slapping turbos on everything with all different types of vvt. It's funny though that most normal people don't remember/know that Chrysler sold a helluva lot of turbo engines.
    Exactly. Both increase power and efficiency, but there's no need to remove one in favor of the other (maybe cost??). He was a brilliant engineer, so I don't understand his turbo-vs-VVT argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    I can see now why that never made it to production .. to many parts, to much to modify...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    I can only imagine the increased cost to a $150 timing belt replacement at the dealer with this rigging too


    It's an engineering piece. Once you throw DFM into the mix, it's amazing how much something can change and still accomplish the same purpose.
    Jon J.

    1989 Daytona ES 2.4L DOHC
    2003 Neon SXT - gone but never forgotten

    If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is!

  19. #39
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    The funny thing is Chrysler didn't utilize VVT untill I think the world engine?

  20. #40
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimate Shadow ES

    That cam phasing unit looks like a mechanical nightmare, especially for an engine with belt issues anyway...although those extra pulleys probably would have fixed that lol.
    Rob M.
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