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Thread: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

  1. #101
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    rdnoel86 brought up a good point to remember: Those IMSA heads were done for an N/A application. Way back then, you couldn't run a turbo in IMSA(I don't know the rules now). They were pushing for 200-250+ hp with a Holley 500 cfm 2 barrel, and pushing 8000 rpm. In the middle of all of this development work, IMSA changed the rules, and the 2.2 became non-competitive, so Chrysler, Koffel, and the rest of them dropped the program. I'm not sure where the ITB setup came into play. Maybe it was a development deal, before the rules changed? I know all the pictures I've seen of the IMSA cars in race trim had Holley's on them.

    I know there were guys out there pushing close to 300 hp N/A with these motors and radical heads. But that is close to the limit(IMHO).

    I don't doubt what Shadow is saying, a propperly developed 8V turbo motor could produce close to 1000 hp, if money were no object...

    But we're all T-M guys, and money is an object...

  2. #102
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
    rdnoel86 brought up a good point to remember: Those IMSA heads were done for an N/A application. Way back then, you couldn't run a turbo in IMSA(I don't know the rules now). They were pushing for 200-250+ hp with a Holley 500 cfm 2 barrel, and pushing 8000 rpm. In the middle of all of this development work, IMSA changed the rules, and the 2.2 became non-competitive, so Chrysler, Koffel, and the rest of them dropped the program. I'm not sure where the ITB setup came into play. Maybe it was a development deal, before the rules changed? I know all the pictures I've seen of the IMSA cars in race trim had Holley's on them.

    I know there were guys out there pushing close to 300 hp N/A with these motors and radical heads. But that is close to the limit(IMHO).

    I don't doubt what Shadow is saying, a propperly developed 8V turbo motor could produce close to 1000 hp, if money were no object...

    But we're all T-M guys, and money is an object...
    And that was my point;

    It's all fine and good to Dream of what you could or couldn't do, but reality paints a much different picture.

    What they did and why they did it back then, and the funding they had vs someone attempting to replicate it on their own today = lesson in futility.

    1. The machining and welding alone would exceed what you could build a comparable stock cam journal location head for today.

    2. Very High percentage chance that after all the welding and moving around that it's not even done right.

    3. you are going to be in a world of hurt trying to make a head with that much welding and modding live for any sig amount of time without issues.

    4. You can build a comparable (maybe even Better) flowing head from one of our stock castings with Zero welding. Only Proper flow testing would tell, or real world BtB testing.

    Look at all of the individuals that spent months building hack headers over the years, just to throw them away and put on a ported stocker and go Faster! I would never tell someone Not to do something if the sole reason is "just because they want to give it a try", but I will try to throw out a distant early warning of what the outcome will likely be IF I have the experience to do so.

    It's unfortunate that the internet is like this, so easy to get bent out of shape over a simple conversation and someone's opinion. How is it that we so simply forget that, that's all it is, just someone else's opinion.

    Don't like it?

    Dismiss and try again..........(although, I would rather the person remain engaged and Press their own view. Unfortunately, their own argument is usually too weak and this is what the Real issue often is......)

  3. #103
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    lol
    even without welding and modding those blank isma castings would be hard on the bank roll just getting them to a "finished" state

    though I'm sold at the point of raised port roof / long valve , knowing what it does for a big block dodge (aka indy or long valve stage 6 heads - make a stock bb head a waste of time)

    what I'd like to know about this head(s) is why they say there were issues with the stock castings pushing the combustion chambers up with 250 -300 hp (?)

    was this due to a high compression ratio and prolonged run times when at a high operating temperature?

    what exactly did they modify for this in the isma heads?
    I noted the small rectangular hole where our heads have the large crescent shaped passage in front of the combustion chambers

    .. and why if they had this issue don't we see it occurring in our motors today which must have at least an equal cylinder pressure with boost maybe even more with a lot of boost ?

    having had a head fixed when the material between the chambers was burned away I also wonder if the same drill / pound in aluminum dowell, drill again pound in another dowell method might be used to modify the combustion chambers into the "figure 8" shape we see here , without welding anything

    granted you might lose some water jacket above the combustion chamber but this also might provide more support for the combustion chambers too

  4. #104
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Dodge also only ran the 8V head for a few seasons. They eventually ended up using the Maserati 16V head.

  5. #105
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Dodge also only ran the 8V head for a few seasons. They eventually ended up using the Maserati 16V head.

    At over 9000 RPM's

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  6. #106
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Dodge also only ran the 8V head for a few seasons. They eventually ended up using the Maserati 16V head.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    At over 9000 RPM's
    Please excuse me while I drool on myself...lol
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  7. #107
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    I remember a while back a guy running a neon 2.0 dohc making over 300whp n/a revving over 10,000rpm. I think it was deep in the 12's.

  8. #108
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    Hey Rob, How much do you think it would cost?
    Well you should know, you're pretty close,
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