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Thread: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

  1. #1
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Acquired a cool piece of history today. Koffel head, adaptor and itb setup. Most of the machine work is done but I have a long road ahead of me. The intake has been re drilled to a different pattern and is very close to the exhaust bolts. I'm going to see if I can find out what the itb setup is off of to see if I can source another one just in case. This a a 445 head that was completely welded up and re machined. It had a tag on it that said "pro stock" the intake ports are slightly larger than the IMSA head the gentleman had. I'm not sure the history but it could be something that he was experimenting with. I'm going to need intake valves and the springs setup. I have yet to find a local shop I trust. I have a few build ideas that I will share after I take a few measurements. Here are some pics. Enjoy!

    Jamie

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    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Stock 2 piece behind the itb adaptor. And a +1 intake valve vs koffel valve

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Wild stuff!

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    man for the sake of the whole TM world you need to find a scaner table that head fits on
    so you can make life sizes scans of the port surface and the deck surface

    so we can all make templates to copy it

    no seriously .. want .. please

    I see what looks like more welding in past the valve spring seats , are the seats raised above the stock hieght ?
    "we" need a close up view of both ports too - through to where the back of the valve would be
    Last edited by Dr. Johny Dodge; 07-31-2017 at 10:00 PM.

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    That is a great idea. I hear the IMSA engines made 300hp N/A. The problem is the entire chamber and valve guide area was completely welded up solid and re-machined. I believe the valves have been moved farther apart due to the massive 1.9 intake valve. There is also some epoxy filling where the water jacket was broke into. The head bolt holes have also been sleeved. along with the weird intake bolt pattern to clear the massive ports. This puts the work involved out of reach for most people. However i have access to another head that retains the stock bolt pattern done by KOFFEL. I might be able to make a silicone mold of the ports on both of these heads. I have no idea what this is going to flow or if its going to be good for a turbo application. My plan is to put it to use someway or another either NA or boosted.

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    I beleive it's been modified. The valves tbat were in the head are supstaintially larger than a stock g head. I have yet to take any measurements but I will soon.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    there was a steel or billit 2.5 crank for sale around here some few months back ..

    iturbo's hilborn set up used the same three bolt intake pattern - Idono about the port size reference

    I've thought for a long time welding the head and moving the intake bolts would let you do wild wild things
    it's really nice to actually see it (lol and maybe I ain't so whack after all)

  8. #8
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    That's an insane amount of work done to those heads. Thanks for taking the time to post, Jamie.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor ajakeski's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    There's nothing there to crack between the valve seats.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    That's a ton of hours of porting in that head and I love that it was done by hand-pre CNC days Very cool. I've had a couple of Koffel pieces (early adj cam gears) and their thinking was very different than convention. In the 2.2 speed secrets book, a bunch of those pics of customs are Koffel's parts.

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    I made molds of the swirl head ports and combustion chamber very easily using some silicone, and then laser scanned them using a home DIY scanner setup..then put them into solidworks and all kinds of shenanigans were possible. This head would be awesome to scan the same way. I'd be up for helping out with that

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo


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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Dr. Johny Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    if only we had someone who could cast new heads .. we have a pattern

    forget the stock ones , just make this ...

    lol and the new R BMF (really big..)

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge View Post
    if only we had someone who could cast new heads .. we have a pattern

    forget the stock ones , just make this ...

    lol and the new R BMF (really big..)
    step1: scan koffel head
    step2: make porting template/guides to allow duplication by hand OR make CNC toolpaths
    step3: make BMF Koffel edition to match
    step4: die happy

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    step1: scan koffel head
    step2: make porting template/guides to allow duplication by hand OR make CNC toolpaths
    step3: make BMF Koffel edition to match
    step4: die happy
    I'm no airflow expert but does anyone see a down side to the super large intake port vs exhaust? Obviously a cam is probably going to have to be designed and built to take advantage of this.

    I also think this is complete enough to flow as is. Anyone have a trustworthy source? I have every head casting number to send with for comparison.

    Long story short a good friend of mine bought all the 4cyl stuff koffel had left. He also built him a destroked 2.0 with similar head for a turbo application. That head might be worth looking at as well. It's similar to this one though.

    Acannell help would be great. I can handle the mold. Any tips you have would be appreciated though! Silicone used etc. I would love to learn the 3d program eventually but I'll just send you the molds to scan in. Would be really cool to document this to compare to stock ports! Thanks for the help that is impressive work!

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    With the right parts (intake,cam,turbo etc.) I would bet this head has enough port area to make power to at least 8000rpm on a 2.2! I feel the cam required still could be kind of mild to make it there! I was making power to 7000rpm using a 89 T1 cam on my modified 445 head! And this head is way beyond what I was using!
    Last edited by glhs875; 08-01-2017 at 01:22 PM.

  17. #17
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Johnny,

    I don't think that's out of the question. Didn't Clearwater cylinder head kind if start the re pop fast burn head? I bet someone could find out who that is and get a group buy together after all the research is complete. They are not to far from me in fl.

    I also have access to another head that is welded up and not machined.

    I think there would be a few ways to go about this if people were willing to spend the cash!

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by CSX194 View Post
    Acannell help would be great. I can handle the mold. Any tips you have would be appreciated though! Silicone used etc. I would love to learn the 3d program eventually but I'll just send you the molds to scan in. Would be really cool to document this to compare to stock ports! Thanks for the help that is impressive work!
    awesome!

    okay so for anyone interested in the swirl head intake port and CC scans I did (I did not scan the exhaust port), a very generous forum member ( kurt ) paid to make them public and reimbursed me for the time and materials to make it happen, you can see the thread and download them here:

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-Parts-Catalog

    Also, I made a thread documenting the process of molding and scanning, but its pics are all dead now:

    http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f32...-our-head.html

    I even did some machining (deshrouding) using the solidworks model of the scan.

    As far as the silicone..I have to refer to my own post..heres what I said:

    "The silicone I ordered was going to be 70 25 Tin Sil, which is a common series for this sort of molding. I wanted to get a good deal, so instead of spending around $36 shipped for 1 lbhttp://www.carbonfiberglass.com/70-2...b-Pint-Kit.htm l, I went on ebay and ordered what wasn't explicitly listed as 70 25 Tin Sil, although it almost certainly is, for $40 shipped for 2.2lbs
    Silicone RTV Rubber Mold Making Compound 1 Qt Kit | eBay . That should be enough (I think) to try out all my molding ideas, exhaust and intake ports, swirl and G head, chambers."

    I know the brand was "illuseffects". I messaged them on ebay to confirm what I ordered back in 2014. It worked well but I added a little metal bar in it to stiffen it up and help it not wobble around.

    The laser scanning process I used was very home-brew. Cheap 3D scanners have come a longggg way since then and it might be worth it to just buy one for $100 or so then sell it when finished.

    Once the scan is made, work still needs to be done in geomagic and solidworks to turn it into something that can be useful for toolpath generation or analysis, or models based on it.

  19. #19
    Garrett booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Sweet! I'm going to look into a scanner. If anyone has a recommendation or experience, let me know and I'll buy it. My buddy has been wanting one for our shop to measure engine accessories to help with turbo system design. I have very light knowledge in solid works and it's been 7 years but this is a good excuse to learn it! I'll probably be messaging you for help

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    Re: Koffel 8v Head and IMSA ITB Setuo

    Quote Originally Posted by CSX194 View Post
    Johnny,

    I don't think that's out of the question. Didn't Clearwater cylinder head kind if start the re pop fast burn head? I bet someone could find out who that is and get a group buy together after all the research is complete. They are not to far from me in fl.

    I also have access to another head that is welded up and not machined.

    I think there would be a few ways to go about this if people were willing to spend the cash!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    There were importing the chinese remake. and pretending it was amazing.

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