Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
I have spent many many thousands of dollars with the vendors. Probably far more than their average customer. Do I trust them, yeah!
Certain things I prefer to buy from certain sources. Cylinder heads and transaxles are at the top of that list. The rest I will build myself. I think most everybody has their preference and it's just normal and business as usual. My post wasn't meant as an attack on the vendors at all and shouldn't be seen as such.
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JT
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Hey don't feel too bad there JT, I was Almost going to reply myself, but you replied first and that gave me time to reread and think about what iTurbo was saying.
I came up with;
Not saying he doesn't trust our vendors when it comes to what they Know and sell.
Saying that he doesn't trust an "off the shelf" piece to do something "out of the norm" like work on an 8v capable of 600+WHP and 8000RPM. Not because our vendors are not Trustworthy, but simply because the part they stock and deal with, may not be as well suited for such an Individual endeavor.
So I think he was talking about whether he could trust the piece itself, and it's ability to "get the job done" vs a "one off" purposefully built piece from an experienced person who deals with custom stuff like that.
But like you said, the net and the written word is easily misinterpreted, maybe I got it completely wrong..........
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
You guys know I'm not all that into building really big HP machines, and I'm more than happy to leave that to you guys. I think I just got to typing too fast and it came out wrong. Sometimes that happens with text on a screen versus talking to somebody in real life.
It's probably obvious to most I'm into the 16v thing, especially the old school stuff. But I do have one of those ITB setups that this thread is about and I'll only talk about that now. Like many things, it sits on the shelf while I look at in in wonder.
ditto .. what shadow said ^ (I was thinking the same)
Very cool stuff!!
I notice the lash adjusters are off set, most likely to align with the repositioned valves.
One curious thing is the cam cap studs, the 2.2 book claimed they were inferior to bolts.
Thanks
Randy
There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
Randy Hicks
86 GLHS60
86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
89 Turbo Minivan
83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
All this history/pictures are super interesting, I love it! Always enjoy the behind-the-scenes info...
BUT. What I'd REALLY like to know about is the actual dimensional specs, such as how much exactly was the cam raised? (and why that amount, if that's knowable), how long were the valves? Are there numbers for the port volume, cam specs, etc?
I ask because I've always been a little frustrated with the limitations of the "stock" configuration valve train. The flow numbers of even a stock head show it's still going at .500" lift, but that's not really practical with the stock geometry, which is obvious when we see the changes serious race teams made to get the most out of these engines.
Sorry if I'm "polluting" this thread, it just seems like a lot of the right eyeballs will see my inquiry here...
I'd love to see a "IMSA Tech" (or whatever we'd care to call it) thread that collected as much of the available "all out" tips/tricks used to not only make these engines make more HP, but LIVE under some pretty harsh conditions. Yea, not everything is going to translate to the "street", but the theory behind it should and will only make the breed stronger.
One question that fits is, what did the teams do about the distributor? Seems like the HEP/shutter wheel would be a huge liability in an endurance race, what was their solution? I can guess, but I'd love to know what worked then, and maybe we can improve upon it...
Anyway, what say you?...
Mike
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
- Edmund Burke
Gotta remember, that was years ago when people were applying what they knew then about larger displacement mtrs and not so much known about the Dynamics of turbocharging. We have grown by Leaps and Bounds since then and there is no reason to go to those extremes any more for even .600+ lift and 800WHP
It can all be achieved with no welding on head and with cam in current location............
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
True, one can build a 1000+HP engine from a catalog these days. BUT, there is no denying that what they did worked, and worked with essentially what we have to work with today, hence my interest in the particulars.
Also, these were NA engines IIRC, so making the power that they did is even more impressive.
Mike
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
- Edmund Burke
I'm not sure were you got this from, but surprised it would be in response to what I posted?
No, you can't just buy a 1000+HP 8v from a catalog, not even in these days. Yes, what they did worked, and it can work today with out all that fuss, that was all I was saying.
There are 8v heads today, running .600+ lift cams with cam is stock location and no welding or moving around of any of the "hard parts". So not only can it be done today with what we have to work with, it can be done without all the Major fabrication that they went through because that was their "Mind Frame" back then
IF I had nothing but time on my hands, and money to burn, I could put together a "dream Team" and turn out an 800-1000WHP 10,000RPM turning Monster 8v 2.2 right now.
Not worth talking about, because I have neither, so I will continue to take the Turtle approach and see where it goes!
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
Hey Rob, How much do you think it would cost?
best 1/8 ET-6.16 sec. best 1/8 speed-119.70 Best 1/4 MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.65 sec. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!
I think he meant one can build a 1000hp engine from a catalog as in a generic v8.
I haven't read every word of this thread, but I will throw out a couple small things. I have talked to Koffel multiple times about my car and the engines they built for it. They rarely do anything 4 cylinder anymore, but are willing to tackle projects, but I believe the guys that did some of their 2.2 stuff are now at their shop in Ohio. Only one guy in the Haggerty shop even recognized my car. It was a long time ago. The original motors for my SS/EC had those type heads on them, then they switched to a Brodix casting for the newer(at the time ) stuff. I haven't seen the Brodix head away from the engine....But Reeves has one and the original owner of my car still has one.
I thought seriously about getting an original engine and running N/A, but with the rules now, I can legally run a 2.4. Not sure it would be worth it to build up an oldie again....great find, and have fun with it.
Well that would solely depend on what one's time is worth.
If you don't count the Dream Teams time as in $ figures, then I'm a say about 40,000.00 on the high end.
If you count $ value for time along with actual cost out of pocket, well that would be in the Millions!!!!!!!!
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
Ok... obviously I didn't say one could buy a 1000 hp 8V, I said engine.
Sorry for wanting to advance the breed, if shutting down conversation was the goal, than mission accomplished.
PEACE OUT.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
- Edmund Burke
Sorry you got bent out of shape over that, we are obviously talking about 8v mtrs because that's what the head in Q bolts up to.
So you were talking about some other mtrs.....fine.
So you want to continue a conversation about a head that was made to work before anyone knew anything about these engines.....fine.
I'm not stopping you from doing either of those, and If you feel I am, man you gotta have a little more confidence in yourself
All I did was answer Your Question. If you don't like my answer I would encourage you to disregard it and continue on until you hopefully find an answer that appeases you.....no?
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!