John Laing
"The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
-- Alexis de Tocqueville
"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
--Ayn Rand
"To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
-- Justice Antonin Scalia
Honest question here.....
Why try to get every ounce of HP out of the 8v head (in any form), when 16v engines are available? I'm a sucker for nostalgia probably more than anybody, but I can't imagine trying to squeeze any more than 240 WHP out of that old dilapidated 8v head. Am I wrong? Kudos to those that try but I just gotta wonder.
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He had a fully built custom car. It wasn't based on anything from Chrysler. And he did have a destroked 2.0L crankshaft/pistons. I have them now.
This is turning into a great thread despite me feeling bad about hijacking it with off topic stuff.
I will dig up as much information as I can regarding the ITB setup.
For me, it's kind of an engineering exercise, how how much of a racehorse can one make out of a mule?... Plus, I think a lot of us are into the "sleeper" aspect of our cars, which is made that much more impressive when one pops the hood to see a plain-Jane "Chrysler Turbo" valve cover. A Masi (or Lotus) branded valve cover leads to "oh, no wonder, it's not really a Chrysler anyway...".
Do not get me wrong, if it were just about making power, I'd be doing a 2.4L turbo swap. Much more flow out of the box, and much more aftermarket support as well as more contemporary mods being done (someone doing R&D for you!).
That being said, I've been planning a "see what you can get" cylinder head with the only real restriction on the project being that the valve cover rail would remain in the stock location... Though I've been considering adding a spacer to allow for higher cam towers (to get better geometry and higher lift cam), but that may be a bridge too far. Gotta get something good done, not perfection...
Mike
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I seem to recall that there was an adapter/sub-plate that went with those as a kit, one side matched the head, the other the ITB set-up. Or I might just be imagining it!
Mike
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
- Edmund Burke
Ok guys, don't get me wrong. I love these cars and the 2.2/2.5 to death. Me personally, I have a very hard time finding fabrication work! And I am always very thankful for Group Buys and such. So 16v has been the way for me. I do have an awesome SOHC 8v head on my old Omni GLH that my brother now owns. It was built by Todd and it hauls ---. It is just as fast now with the old 'log' TI as it was with the previous setup which was a 2.5L "TII" with a gigantic Isuzu NPR intercooler and 17 psi. So great props to Todd for selling me that because it is awesome.
I have told my older brother I could make something *really* badass for him but he is more than happy with the power! Be it a Spearco intercooler on the old TI, a 16v conversion etc....but he loves it. He's driving to Casper WY tomorrow with it actually.
I would be VERY interested in seeing the adapter plate! I can see how if it was angled upwards to clear the radiator/fan it would be much better.
For me it's the Challenge, along with the shear Coolness of what CS did with these cars to begin with.
Making things any easier just would be the same............
Robert Mclellan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
8 valve, No Nitrous!
New clutch combo is the SH!T!
I do respect the challenge. Some have said nitrous or 16v is somehow cheating. I don't agree with that, but making big power with the 8v SOHC is something to be respected.
Here's some food for thought:
It seems to me the guys that want to make big power with the 8v SOHC head are basically screwed.You basically have to do it all yourself. Sure you can get 'ported' heads from TU or FWDP, but how much can you actually trust them? If I could pay Todd to make me a badass cylinder head I would, but I'm the type that would only trust him to do it.
Years ago I was looking into M squared Racing (Matt Green) to build a top end, but they disappeared. To me it seems like the only way to build a badass 8v is if you have connections or you can do it yourself. For the laymen like me, it is no longer an option. We are stuck with stock heads.
Good point. I respect the 16v stuff. It is just a better design. I've always had weird desire to make the 8v stuff work. I guess when you build and work on higher horsepower turbo cars on a regular basis i want something challenging. I have learned a great deal of universal knowledge from these 8v .motors and still love to mess with them.
One of my customers has a twin turbo viper, an 800hp Dakota that I built and a 2.5 turbo caravan that I built. Guess what he loves the most. The caravan and Dakota. Both underdogs in the head flow department.
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One thing I would like to see made for the 8V head is roller followers with larger diameter rollers from that of a 8V 4.6 Ford V8. I forget the diameter of these rollers (been awhile) but they will increase the duration using the same stock camshaft by 9 deg. And if I remember right, if the larger roller were to be moved towards the lifter (increasing rocker ratio) to keep the same valve closing point as a stock rocker, the lift of a .430 cam would be increased to like .490! Then a person could play with cam timing for a desired power band! I made a mock up rocker to get measurements!
Last edited by glhs875; 08-02-2017 at 08:23 PM.
I think the biggest thing that holds most 8 valvers back is skipping the basics, not the head itself.
Not knocking FWDP or TU, because I have a good relationship with both and I would like to keep it that way. But the cylinder head from Todd has most definitely proven itself. I totally admit I missed out on having a head built by Steve (BadFastGTC). Last I heard he was taking a break. I totally understand that.
My point is that 16v conversions are becoming more popular because you can just bolt them on. I did it on my Shelby Lancer. It was expensive, but it was possible. Having a badass 8v SOHC head is not so easy these days and sometimes having cash on hand makes no difference if you can't find a reputable source. I'm not advocating 16v conversion but it does seem more possible in this day.
The Masi is crazy rare, but with the TIII all you have to do is ask and pretty much everything is available.
JT
SDAC Director
SDAC-Chicago President
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87 Shelby Z - 10.50@141.66mph
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"how much can you trust them?" Really? WTF? Ya know, it's comments like this that make our vendors care less to support our community.
I would not question the integrity of our vendors as many have had good success running their products. For supporting such a niche community, our vendors do pretty well to support as best they can. Especially difficult for them to support when so many like to DIY then others who cannot (or dont care to) DIY lose out.
...PLEASE, let's keep this thread on topic. If anyone has any questions about a vendor (or anyone for that matter) please contact them directly to work it out.
As far as stock heads, it depends on the level of power wanted, our stock 8v heads have made it pretty far.
JT
SDAC Director
SDAC-Chicago President
JOIN SDAC and your local Chapter TODAY! - SUPPORT the CLUB that supports YOUR HOBBY!
87 Shelby Z - 10.50@141.66mph
87 CSX #751 Clone - 12.88@102.88mph
www.badassperformance.com
Check out Turbo-Mopar Times!
Submit your 1/4 mile times HERE!!
Support SDAC! Join Today!
"I'm not some pro athlete with a bajillion dollars, I'm just an every man"
Note: The information and any images provided in this post are not for distribution outside this forum without the author's permission.