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Thread: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    I just had oil/filter changed on my wife's 2011 3.6 Chrysler 200 at the selling dealer.

    The service dept. advised me the Engine oil cooler is leaking.

    All looks dry and there are no oil drips, at least yet.

    I found it curious they recommended an Engine oil dye test for $170.00 to confirm its leaking oil???

    I see the oil filter was changed for 2014, are the new housings more or less prone to leaking?

    Lots of 2014 models with cooler leaks on google but I haven't noticed any earlier ones.

    Anyone have any experience in this area, do leaking coolers drip first or just bust ??

    Seems strange if the new design is more troublesome than the original, or do they all leak ?

    The dealer is the only one to ever touch touch this car but I don't have a lot of confidence in them.

    If original coolers have a short life, are aftermarket units any better??

    Whats the scoop please ??

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    The oil coolers don't leak for no reason. Most of the time it's because idiots over tighten the plastic cap or don't replace all the o rings. They changed the oil cooler design for 2 reasons, to fix the cylinder head issue of the earlier 3.6's and to make it less prone to being broken when installing a new filter. Take the engine cover off and look under the intake manifold from the driverside. If it's leaking, it would leak down there onto the transmission bellhousing.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    That's what I was thinking but I have no experience with the canister filters yet.

    I heard some stories of "idiots" and canister filters so had the dealer perform all service up to now.

    Now that it's out of warranty I'll be doing the service myself.

    Are there new O rings with new filters or are they needed separately??

    So am I understanding correctly, the coolers fail due to the canister getting handled improperly??

    The canister and cooler are 1 part correct??

    When they leak, what is the normal source of the leak??

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    I only see the newer ones leak at the cooler. The 13 and back design had a poor drainback valve that would break easily during service and was only serviceable with the cooler assembly. The newer ones they moved it to the cap.

    If you had an oil cooler leaking the bellhousing would be drenched and the valley would be full of oil.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    The oil filter housing has an oil cooler integrated into it. It also has an oil temperature and oil pressure sensor in it as well. The old 3.6 had a center plastic piece that was part of the housing. The oil filter slid over it. It was prone to breaking. Newer 3.6 has the plastic piece molded onto the filter instead. All new o rings come with oil filter. You want the cap to be just barely snug. I've replaced tons of those coolers. Sometimes when the oil pressure sensor goes bad and you try taking it out, the molded brass threaded insert spins in the plastic lol. They are easy to replace. Pull upper and lower intake and it's right there.

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    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Going to have to check out the 3.6 in my 2015 GC to see what you are talking about, and to know what to look out for.
    I've been going to the dealer for oil changes since we got several free ones included with purchase. We have 30k now.

    At what mileage do you start seeing those issues with the oil pressure switch?
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Appreciate the good info !!!

    Dealer said it's leaking but it's bone dry.

    I'm guessing they may have broken the bypass and are stroking me, just guessing though.

    I've never had the oil cap off but I'm going to have a look.

    I see Dorman make a replacement bypass kit so I'll get one on hand before cracking the cap loose.

    Are the early coolers less leak prone or just get replaced more often due to broken bypass valves??

    All input is appreciated!!

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Going to have to check out the 3.6 in my 2015 GC to see what you are talking about, and to know what to look out for.
    I've been going to the dealer for oil changes since we got several free ones included with purchase. We have 30k now.

    At what mileage do you start seeing those issues with the oil pressure switch?
    It was a tsb on earlier cars. Forgot the years but I think it ended around 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHS60 View Post
    Appreciate the good info !!!

    Dealer said it's leaking but it's bone dry.

    I'm guessing they may have broken the bypass and are stroking me, just guessing though.

    I've never had the oil cap off but I'm going to have a look.

    I see Dorman make a replacement bypass kit so I'll get one on hand before cracking the cap loose.

    Are the early coolers less leak prone or just get replaced more often due to broken bypass valves??

    All input is appreciated!!

    Thanks
    Randy
    Most of the coolers I replaced we're due to the cooling systems sludging on avengers/200's. Had to replace the rad, heater core, oil cooler and all coolant. I replaced probably less than 5 in my 6 years for leaking. Replaced an engine in one because jiffy lube put the early filter on a newer engine.

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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    I think it was a manufacturing issue with the newer housings. They have 2 well plugs near the base of the filter stanchion that are friction welded in place, the later model ones had issues with leaks around these plugs. I think when they re tooled for the new design they miscalculated the process and the first units were prone to leaking. I haven't seen one in a while.
    Ian Adams Function>Form 1990 shadow scrapped, too rusty:( 1991 Spirit R/T Scrapped, parts sold:( 1989 Turbo Caravan Daily beater with built-[I]ish [/I]​engine slowly evolving into weekend turbo beater.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    One more question if anyone has time.

    Is there any check valve to prevent oil draining out of the filter housing when the Engine sits.

    I understand the bypass valve that's visible is a dirty oil filter bypass valve, correct?

    I removed the oil filter cap with filter still attached to see if the bypass valve was intact and it was.

    There was no oil visible in the housing when I removed the filter.

    Does removing the filter uncover an oil filter housing drain??

    Strange thing is there was an audible click when I lifted the filter out.

    At first I thought it was the bypass valve breaking but as mentioned it's still good.

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Oil filter drains when you remove it. That's why you always loosen it before oil change.

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    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Quote Originally Posted by thedon809 View Post
    Oil filter drains when you remove it. That's why you always loosen it before oil change.
    Can you explain this just a bit further, since i haven't done an oil change myself on my 3.6?
    You mean to say just break the filter free and it will drain internally, then spin it off the rest of the way?

    I had a 2002 tacoma with v6 and the filter was up high, but there was no way to prevent oil going everywhere.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Yes, like my pal Wayne, please explain any details, however minor, concerning the 3.6 !!

    I haven't touched it from 2011 due to no experience and warranty.

    Now that warranty is over, except for 1 head, I'm going to start learning and doing what I can.

    Car/Engine/Trans have been essentially flawless from new so I'm hoping to keep on top of any potential issues.

    Any input is greatly appreciated!!!

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
    86 GLHS60
    86 GLHS 373 : SOLD, but never forgotten
    89 Turbo Minivan
    83 Turbo Rampage : SOLD
    Edmonton,Alberta,Canada

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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Quote Originally Posted by wheming View Post
    Can you explain this just a bit further, since i haven't done an oil change myself on my 3.6?
    You mean to say just break the filter free and it will drain internally, then spin it off the rest of the way?

    I had a 2002 tacoma with v6 and the filter was up high, but there was no way to prevent oil going everywhere.
    Unthread it all of the way and just lift it up a tiny bit. All the oil will drain down into the pan. Probably one of the easiest oil changes. I loosen the filter, let it drain and then drain the oil in the pan and then after that replace the filter. Add 6qts of 5w30 (early 3.6) or 5w20 (later).

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    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Thanks!
    Whenever i saw the filter upside down like that, i thought it would be messy!
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    I've done every oil change on my wifes 15 Jeep GC Overland 3.6 bar the 1st one only because at $20 for the dealer to do it I couldn't beat that price and the next one was getting Mobil 1 anyway. It's so simple. The filter is easy as get out. I order K&N filters from K and N's website which are pretty cheap. There are plenty of videos on Youtube to watch. I just snug up the top filter nut when putting it back together. turn the key on, stomp the gas pedal 3 times to reset the oil usage percentage setting in the dash and go.

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    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Quote Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
    I've done every oil change on my wifes 15 Jeep GC Overland 3.6 bar the 1st one only because at $20 for the dealer to do it I couldn't beat that price and the next one was getting Mobil 1 anyway. It's so simple. The filter is easy as get out. I order K&N filters from K and N's website which are pretty cheap. There are plenty of videos on Youtube to watch. I just snug up the top filter nut when putting it back together. turn the key on, stomp the gas pedal 3 times to reset the oil usage percentage setting in the dash and go.
    Actually I'm glad you mentioned that!
    Mine seems to calculate oil life to be rught at 10k miles. I'm using Valvoline platinum synthetic since Mobil1 did not meet the manufactures oil spec (seems odd).
    But, is there a way to change the calculation to be based on 6-8k miles? 10000 miles seems a long time, even for a good synthetic.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    I never pay attention to the oil change light. I change my oil every 3-4k for conventional and 5-6k for synthetic. I've seen plenty of sludged engines at the dealer from lack of oil changes. You can't change the oil change light. I liked the older systems where you could choose the miles.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    Now that we have the oil straightened out what are normal issues with the 3.6, not counting the left head.

    I remember some early units had cooling system issues but I think that was contaminated antifreeze?

    Any items that tend to give issues like the housing on the 2.7 that looked like a t stat housing.

    I replaced that at about 100K on our 2001 Sebring 2.7 and the water pump gasket at about 200K

    It wasn't leaking but I knew many early 2.7's had issues I wanted to avoid.

    I put plugs in it about 200K but it was running perfect, only failure item was the fuel pump at 200+K

    Only one I could get quickly was a chinese unit but it's still good at 320K, I hope the 3.6 is as reliable.!!!

    Do the 200 fuel pumps require dropping the tank? The Intrepid was genius with the trunk fuel pump access.

    I see a some high mileage 3.6's have rocker arm issues, are things like the cam phasers and oil pump electronics problematic?

    Wayne, what questions do you have?? Its nice to have good guys sharing info!!

    Appreciate the feed back

    Thanks
    Randy


    There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

    Randy Hicks
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    89 Turbo Minivan
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    Re: Chrysler Techs please: Pentastar question

    I have seen a couple of the needle bearings in the rockers go bad. Either from lack of oil changes or defect in the rocker. Have seen a couple bad dual stage oil pumps. Luckily they are actually really cheap (under $100 from the dealer iirc) and can be replaced by pulling the lower pan only if you get creative with swivel sockets. Even then these 2 issues were uncommon.

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