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Thread: TIII rocker arms

  1. #1
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    TIII rocker arms

    Has anybody ever looked into getting aftermarket TIII rocker arms made?

    This is the biggest thing that scares me about the TIII. I have had no less than 3 rocker arm failures over the years that wiped out the cam and got metal all over the engine.

    Believe it or not, I've never had a timing belt, I-shaft bearing, or cracked head failure on my TIIIs. I seem to be a magnet for rocker arm failures though. Basically what happens is the pin holding the roller 'walks' out and eventually seizes the roller bearing, promptly wiping out the cam and breaking the rocker.

    I have extras, but it's always in the back of my mind that someday it will happen again on an engine I built for somebody. In two of the three failure cases I've personally experienced, I had NO idea that it happened until I popped the valve covers off. They seemed to run just fine on 15 valves but there was metal flakes all over the place and I had to rebuild them and replace the camshaft.

    IF somebody could design/build a superior TIII rocker arm that fixed this problem I would buy multiple sets. The stock rocker arms are no longer available from Mopar (or anywhere else) and eventually all of the original rockers will be so worn out it will be russian roulette with your motor to run them at all.

  2. #2
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Sure hope I'm not the only one. Eventually this will become a Group Buy but it's hard to say when.

    My advice: Take the valve covers off and inspect at least twice a year. Look at the pin holding the roller bearing and if it's dislodged to one side or the other you might have to think about it.

    I fully admit this isn't going to be cheap.

  3. #3
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by iTurbo View Post
    Sure hope I'm not the only one. Eventually this will become a Group Buy but it's hard to say when.

    My advice: Take the valve covers off and inspect at least twice a year. Look at the pin holding the roller bearing and if it's dislodged to one side or the other you might have to think about it.

    I fully admit this isn't going to be cheap.
    Is there a punch mark to help hold in that pin?
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    I read through a bunch of old posts once and if I remember correctly a guy was getting a custom set of rockers made up. Would probably have to contact a company like Jessel or T&D. And like ya said, Jeremy, open the wallet wide.

  5. #5
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    If there were to be new production, the rocker ratio could be adjusted. Even the width and diameter of the roller.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    There's been a few people that have put out feelers over the years. Only one has come to fruition as a prototype. To get a run of 10 sets, it was...well...a wee bit spendy.

    I would love to be able to run new rockers. I think it would be great to increase the ratio a bit. Wouldn't even care if they were solid or hydraulic.


    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ght=rocker+arm

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...one&highlight=

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...t=solid+lifter
    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by 86Shelby View Post
    There's been a few people that have put out feelers over the years. Only one has come to fruition as a prototype. To get a run of 10 sets, it was...well...a wee bit spendy.

    I would love to be able to run new rockers. I think it would be great to increase the ratio a bit. Wouldn't even care if they were solid or hydraulic.


    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ght=rocker+arm

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...one&highlight=

    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...t=solid+lifter
    Looks like the past attempts never turned into anything. And I don't think Bender and Wallace are even in the hobby anymore.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    How about some insurance in the form of a teeny tiny quick spot weld? A good welder could do it, especially if they use some heat sink.
    John Laing

    "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
    -- Alexis de Tocqueville

    "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
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    "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
    -- Justice Antonin Scalia

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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Bender and I were just talking about it last week. He has been busy over the past couple years working for himself in General Contracting. Look to see some progress from him on a new project in the not too distant future.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Also, if the arms were all new, we could retain the pin with a circlip of some kind. Incorporate a groove for it, and adjust the pin length. There are many options if going with some form of new production.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSkrab View Post
    Bender and I were just talking about it last week. He has been busy over the past couple years working for himself in General Contracting. Look to see some progress from him on a new project in the not too distant future.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Cool. As a relative new comer to the Turbo Mopar TIII world it's always nice to see progress made on new products or projects.

  12. #12
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSkrab View Post
    Also, if the arms were all new, we could retain the pin with a circlip of some kind. Incorporate a groove for it, and adjust the pin length. There are many options if going with some form of new production.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    What about rebuilding good used ones in this manner? If the roller is the only real weak link in it, maybe it could be updated/upgraded...
    Rob M.
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  13. #13
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    What about rebuilding good used ones in this manner? If the roller is the only real weak link in it, maybe it could be updated/upgraded...
    That would be a more cost effective solution.

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Rocker arms pffftt. Real 16V motors actuate the valves directly from the cam lobes but you already know that...

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  15. #15
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Rocker arms pffftt. Real 16V motors actuate the valves directly from the cam lobes but you already know that...
    But the cam's lift, with finger followers, is not limited by the diameter of the bucket and the bucket and shim weigh more. Not that lift or float are problems with those "real" 16V engines.

    PS - IMO, electric cars have "motors" and gas cars have "engines."
    John Laing

    "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
    -- Alexis de Tocqueville

    "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
    --Ayn Rand

    "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that."
    -- Justice Antonin Scalia

  16. #16
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSkrab View Post
    Also, if the arms were all new, we could retain the pin with a circlip of some kind. Incorporate a groove for it, and adjust the pin length. There are many options if going with some form of new production.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Been there, done that. I don't trust the circlip idea. Sure, it's fine when it's an internal clip for a piston pin, but using it externally I foresee a lot of clips falling off the shafts. A little circlip isn't going to stay on when traveling .25" back & forth upwards of 60 times per second.

    I did this idea and had little shafts made for them. Had the shop harden them to Rockwell(?) 60 and then polished them by hand. The clips we used needed to be spot welded to the shaft since there was no way they would stay on. IMHO the best way to secure the shafts would be to mushroom the ends like the factory did originally.

    Here is a thread covering what I did several years ago. If the pics don't work, let me know and I'll see if I can get links fixed. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ghlight=rocker
    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Quote Originally Posted by 86Shelby View Post
    Been there, done that. I don't trust the circlip idea. Sure, it's fine when it's an internal clip for a piston pin, but using it externally I foresee a lot of clips falling off the shafts. A little circlip isn't going to stay on when traveling .25" back & forth upwards of 60 times per second.

    I did this idea and had little shafts made for them. Had the shop harden them to Rockwell(?) 60 and then polished them by hand. The clips we used needed to be spot welded to the shaft since there was no way they would stay on. IMHO the best way to secure the shafts would be to mushroom the ends like the factory did originally.

    Here is a thread covering what I did several years ago. If the pics don't work, let me know and I'll see if I can get links fixed. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ghlight=rocker
    Great idea. Links not working

  18. #18
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    I remember one of my local friends put a set of Harland Sharp rocker arms in his Pontiac GTP (3800 SC) a long time ago. The rockers had a modified lift ratio of 1.9 vs something like 1.7 stock. That alone was a big increase in power (similar to a cam) and also he had no more knock retard afterwards with the same pump gas. He probably could have gotten away with increasing the boost via a smaller pulley no problem.

    As far as the TIII, from what I have seen/experienced, the roller pins are peened into place, but this eventually fails. And we all have 30+ year old rocker arms at this point so it's going to become more and more of an issue. I would be all for a modified rocker ratio, but mostly I'm scared of having this happen to me again with the pins walking out. I don't mean to scare anybody, but I've personally had needle roller bearings falling out and ending up in the pan, wiped out cams, and broken rocker arms. Pulverized death metal all over the engine.

    What kind of investment are we talking here? I have four TIII's running around here and the rocker arms failing scares me. Two of the TIII engines are mine and I would be all for buying a new set. I can't speak for my two local customers though.
    Last edited by iTurbo; 06-05-2017 at 01:22 AM.

  19. #19
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    Glad we are still talking about these, I plan on bringing the Van out next year, kids miss it.
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  20. #20
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: TIII rocker arms

    What would a fair price point be for a set of 16 NOS I/E TIII rockers with lifters that we may or may not have?
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